Making India Inc Accessible

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On the occasion of the International Day of Persons with Disabilities observed on the 3rd of December, Host Kiran Somvanshi speaks with corporate lawyer Amar Jain involved in advocacy for the rights of people with disability, Shilpi Kapoor, CEO, BarrierBreak Solutions, and Yogesh Desai, Chief Executive Officer at Helen Keller Institute for Deaf & Deafblind to discuss what are the challenges that people with disabilities go through? Are their job prospects improving? Is India and India Inc truly moving towards disability inclusion? Are the laws for them actually getting implemented? What is the ground reality? All this and much more.

​This is an audio transcript of The Morning Brief podcast episode: Making India Inc Accessible


BG Sound 0:09
I come from Jodhpur, Rajasthan, I did most of my schooling in blind school. And Rajasthan unfortunately is not a very conducive state in terms of its mindset towards people with disabilities, you know, the mindset is they, you know, Bhichaara Andha Kya Karega, like that kind of attitude. Soon after I thought to do law, a law college denied me admission. When I went to open my first bank account, I got a scholarship cheque and I had to deposit it in I was denied the bank account by SBI church gate, the minute other person gets to know that you have a disability, the attitude completely changes. We only get to hear about disability when the International Day of Persons with Disabilities close to and these issues are often forgotten, right? As the date passes, by. Being disabled adds to the existing disability in the mindsets of people and which is why you need to fight for the rights of people with disabilities.

Kiran Somwanshi 1:09
That's Amar Jain, an advocate for disability rights, who is himself visually impaired, but he is from what I would count among the fortunate lot, who has a job and a career. Out of the over one crore employable people with disabilities in India, barely a third actually get a job or are able to be self employed. In fact, from the disclosures made in their annual reports, I have found that the top 50 listed companies in India have together hired over 11,000 people with disabilities for the financial year 2021 But hold on. That's less than half a percent of that total permanent workforce. And 40% of these 11,000 odd individuals are employed by just one PSU that is State Bank of India. And bulk of the remaining are hired by a bunch of PSUs and IT companies like Indian Oil, coal, India, TCS, Wipro and Infosys all put together that leaves much of corporate India not making any significant progress in employing the differently abled. At a time when diversity and accessibility are the buzzwords among companies. Are job prospects looking great for people with disabilities. Is India and India Inc. Truly moving towards disability inclusion. What about the six year old law that is meant to protect the rights of people with disabilities? Has it been effective? The answer to all these questions and more is what I explored with Amar, the advocate you just heard. I also speak to Yogesh Desai, the CEO of Mumbai based NGO Helen Keller Institute of Deaf and Deafblind and Shilpi Kapoor who is the founder of barrier break solutions. A firm that actively works in providing tech solutions for people with disabilities. It's Friday, December 2, I'm your host Kiran Somvanshi from the economic times. Tomorrow is International Day of Persons with Disabilities. We explore the progress made and the challenges involved in making India Inc accessible for All on this episode of The Morning Brief.

Kiran Somwanshi 3:25
corporate lawyer Amar Jain is actively involved in advocacy and sensitization of disability rights. He has worked with law firms Trilegal and Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas and is presently working with Accenture, India. But he has had to cross multiple hurdles to assert his rights as a person with disability. Let's know from him the challenges that job seekers with disabilities have to face and the possible way out. Thank you, Amar for being on the morning brief.

Amar Jain 3:56
Well, Kiran, it's a pleasure because as a growing college student and then professional, I've always enjoyed ET so pleasure to be here.

Kiran Somwanshi 4:07
Absolutely. Tell me one thing. What motivated you, Amar to fight for the cause of disability? Can you tell us about your journey?

Amar Jain 4:14
I think Kiran, to answer that would be helpful to kind of tell you about my background a bit. I come from Jodhpur, Rajasthan, I did most of my schooling in blind school. And Rajasthan, unfortunately, is not a very conducive state in terms of its mindset towards people with disabilities, you know, the mindset is they you know, bichara andha kya karega like that kind of attitude. And often people with disabilities are you know tucked into very specific career sets that they can choose because most of the people have seen us doing same careers same performing same roles, right. So when I kind of started thinking about my careers, I wanted to do something different. I did not want to become a teacher or a musician or a banker, which is very common, you know, I want, I explored various career opportunities. And then that's how I got into law. And soon after I thought to do law, a law college denied me admission, where I filed a case before the Chief Commissioner for persons with disabilities and got every facility implemented there, on the you know, because they denied me on the grounds of disability, and I then kind of filed a case to make sure that nobody else is denied. Although eventually I did not take admission in that college, we moved to Bombay. And that's where I got my law done. And for eight years, I worked in Bombay, when I went to open my first bank account, I got a scholarship check, and I had to deposit it, I was denied the bank account by SBI, Churchgate. And that's when I realized that, you know, being disabled adds to the existing disability in the mindsets of people and which is why you need to fight for the rights of people with disabilities, and which is where my advocacy work in this space started.

Kiran Somwanshi 5:58
Is it even now the case that, you know, people with disabilities are denied admissions in colleges or, you know, have a trouble in opening a bank account? Is it still so?

Amar Jain 6:08
Yes, Kiran. In fact, especially in terms of financial facilities, whether it's a bank account, or a credit card or a loan, etcetera, denials continue to happen, and even today, top institutions keep denying admissions from time to time for lack of facilities. So those things do happen. And we have been, in fact, in Delhi High Court litigating against RBI to make sure that for at least financial sector, there needs to be accessibility because the physical currency is inaccessible now, digital apps, the websites and everything else is also inaccessible. So it is adding kind of barriers to day to day life.

Kiran Somwanshi 6:47
Tell me Amar Was it easy once you landed with a corporate job

Amar Jain 6:50
So I was a 30% taxpayer bracket individual in 2015, and wanted to avail a housing loan and I applied to a housing finance company, and there was no policy or no direction from national housing bank that how customers with disabilities should be provided home loans back then, and the financial company refused. And interestingly, none of their refusal came in writing, it was all verbal, the branch manager was not moving ahead my file, the credit manager was not moving ahead my file. They said, No, no, we won't discriminate your file is under process. It was about a month's time that my file was not moving. In between they gave me an option to add a co borrower or guarantor. I said, I don't want to provide anybody because I'm the main kind of earner in the family right now. And it's my liability, why should I provide you and when I'm fully eligible, from Sybil and other perspective, so finally, national housing bank kind of was very responsive, and we got a circular issued for all the housing finance companies to say that no person with disability should be denied financial assistance.

Kiran Somwanshi 7:59
From whatever you have described, it seems like, you know, the issue is systemic and long drawn. And I really wonder, what are the challenges that people with disabilities face, even the ones that can afford to invest in good education? Or, you know, as you mentioned earlier, are falling in a good tax bracket are earning income? You know, what are the challenges that they still face?

Amar Jain 8:19
So If you look at it, couple of challenges, if I may allude to one, as I said, which is the most critical challenge is the attitudinal change, right? The minute other person gets to know that you have a disability, the attitude completely changes. That I think is the biggest problem. Add to that, is inaccessibility, that's another huge challenge inaccessibility of the digital infrastructure as well as physical world. The third problem is lack of awareness amongst people of what people with disabilities can do, how they can do, if we are able to give them let's say, a role or a job, will they be able to perform. The fourth problem, then, because of all of this is leads to, which is kind of a non cooperation, where there is a scope to cooperate and work together and get things done. There also, then you face these problems. And the fifth problem that I want to touch upon broadly is, you know, whenever there are policies being made, disability is not factored into. So I'll give you a very simple example. You go to get a SIM card connection, and nowadays, we are all doing eKYC. Right? Our telecom provider has designed their E KYC. process in a way where for the selfie to be captured, the eye needs to blink in the camera, right? so as a customer at each touchpoint of your service. We don't think of a customer with a disability coming and availing those services, and which is why we kind of end up designing processes which exclude people with disabilities. And the last problem, which is another very interesting problem, even if you take up the problem to people and say, Hey, this is the problem, this needs to be sorted out, they will think that we can create some sort of special facility for them, instead of making the mainstream facility universally accessible. People want to create special facility, which is again exclusionary. So these are some of the challenges.

Kiran Somwanshi 10:19
So the system is such that a person with disability may not be able to function independently, despite wanting to do

Amar Jain 10:25
thats correct. fairpoint.

Kiran Somwanshi 10:27
So what are the challenges that people with disabilities face in the job market,

Amar Jain 10:31
the couple of challenges that are part of a job market one, there are no upper level openings. When I say upper level, I mean the leadership positions. There are openings at the entry level as well as at the mid level, you don't see a CFO with a disability, you don't see a director with a disability being appointed. Most often. I mean, there are examples, but broadly, you don't see those. For example, SEBI mandated the environmental social governance framework. It nowhere mentioned about disability or appointment of a woman director on the board. Nowhere there is a mention of disability, things like that. That's one. Second problem is that while there are openings while there are career opportunities being provided or being thought about for people with disabilities, the internal workplace accessibility continues to be our biggest challenge, the accessibility of the tools that we use day to day, or the physical infrastructure that we use, that continues to be a challenge. The third problem is that the assistive technologies for people with disabilities are costly enough, way too expensive. So while the law says that employers should incur the cost and should not be kind of asked from the employee with disability, but most often you'll see a majority of the companies when you get the job, you will keep struggling for you know, taking approvals from finance from budgeting team, etc, as to who bears the cost, how much the employer is willing to pay, sometimes decisions are taken to reject the candidate basis those costs. The other issue that I see now is, you know, adoption of equal opportunity policy. So the law requires every establishment be it government or private to adopt an equal opportunity policy, it should set out certain things in including what facilities you can provide etcetera, majority of Indian companies have not done it till date, that it's six years since the law was enacted. But even today, that has not happened.

Kiran Somwanshi 12:30
Amar, you know, one thought came to my mind, since you gave that example of the woman directors on the board. You know, even in that case, the excuse many times that comes up is that we don't have enough capable or eligible candidates. So is that also the excuse, which kind of comes up during hiring people with disabilities?

Amar Jain 12:48
Indeed Kiran, that's a very common excuse that even we get to hear today. So interestingly, I was on a panel where other very well reputed companies having global presence were part of the same panel, and we were speaking about employment opportunities for persons with disabilities. And one of the lady made the same excuse that we don't find enough skilled people whom we can recruit. And I was exact opposite of that I studied in a Hindi medium blind school till 12. And then I moved on to you know, do my law and in English media, etc, and all that. So I said, if you don't find skilled talent, then does that mean you deny opportunities, if you provide opportunities, then there is a scope if the person is dedicated enough and the skills can be definitely acquired also. And it is to say in today's time, when people with disabilities, if you look at the profiles Kartik Sawhney who was denied admission by IIT Delhi, went and studied in Stanford and working in Microsoft today. Rahul Bajaj is an Ox scholar is a prestigious scholarship that you have in the legal domain, and has studied from Oxford. So people have done pretty good. So it's, I think, kind of a fallacy to make the argument that we don't find skilled talent,

Kiran Somwanshi 14:04
and Amar what you mentioned about your own journey. It's pretty commendable. So how do you see things changing?

Amar Jain 14:10
So Kiran, I think good thing is that we have kind of started speaking about the need for accessibility. And we have it backed by a very strong legislation as a law, it's a fairly strong law, the implementation can be another problem to tackle, but as an obligation on the service providers, be it public or private, to comply with the accessibility is fairly clear in the law. So that is also pretty good. And in terms of our standards, the recently released standards of bureau of Indian standards on digital accessibility, we are the best, I mean worldwide. So changes are happening slowly, openings are also increasing for people with disabilities more organizations, at least having global presence are wanting to try recruiting people with disabilities because they have clearly realized the benefits of hiring people with disabilities. So changes are happening, but the pace of it is quite slow.

Kiran Somwanshi 15:05
So it's a big work in progress, so to say,

Amar Jain 15:07
Indeed,

Kiran Somwanshi 15:08
but, Amar, what do you think like what will cause things to change?

Amar Jain 15:12
Well, I think couple of things that will impact this change. One is we need more people with disabilities to come out and brainstorm and work with regulators and government and other bodies to make sure that things are implemented, because we also need to show the demand, right, unless I show you the demand for audio description or captioning, you as a business won't take it as a priority item, right. Second, I think our NGOs also need to change Our NGOs have been for a longest time promoting disability as a charity item. I think they also need to change a lot from that perspective. Third, the policymakers need to realize that each policy must have disability component and fourth, I think a budgetary allocation, both for the government and for the private sector, on disability issues need to be there.

Kiran Somwanshi 16:05
As you heard, it's a big work in progress. And the challenges start early. In fact, right from the stage of education. I therefore turn to Yogesh Desai, who is the Chief Executive Officer at the NGO, Helen Keller Institute of Deaf and Deafblind and is involved in training and skill development of persons with multiple disabilities. Thank you, Mr. Desai. And welcome to the Morning Brief.

Yogesh Desai 16:30
Good morning.

Kiran Somwanshi 16:31
So tell me Mr Desai what are the issues you see people with disabilities facing in the employment

Yogesh Desai 16:36
See we are running a skill development program, which is linked to employment, we are mainly into the low end IT jobs when the data entry is involved or emailing that sort of thing. And the issue is we lack the infrastructure facilities at certain work areas, wherein, let's say when there's a loco motor person is there then is the environmental for him in the office have a universal design, means there is a ramp, there is an accessible toilet, whether he can be approached the office easily, or he can move around in the office, if he's a wheelchair bound person. So all those environment issues are also there. And of course, in India, we have issues that we are personally working in Thane and staying in dadar in Mumbai, and he has to travel that area. So there are issues.

Kiran Somwanshi 17:31
So right from travel to the infrastructure at the workplace, and also the communication, you know, the last mile,

Yogesh Desai 17:39
yes, and most important, the employees of that organization, which is going to recruit a person with disability, they have to be sensitized. Let's say, in my own case, where we have been dealing with people with speech and hearing impaired, so they are there physically, but they are not part of the office gossip, which happens or with the communication, which happens, let's take this example, little forward, you know, we have this helplines, where even with the banks or with any of the counter reservation nowadays, with the automated telephone query where they say press one for this press two for so and so. So as speech and hearing impaired is at a total loss, you cannot even reach out to anyone with that kind of helpline infrastructure. So, you know, those sorts of aspects have to be there. And I think every employee nowadays is making sure we have been training a lot of employers, we have been training a lot of income tax people also on the disability aspect, we have been training airline staff. So those sorts of things. Normal tendency is we say normal people.

Kiran Somwanshi 18:45
Yeah.

Yogesh Desai 18:46
And disabled people.

Kiran Somwanshi 18:48
Yes.

Yogesh Desai 18:48
So there's nothing like normal people. It is persons with disability or person without disability. That is the normal teacher they know normal abnormal then. Other thing is deaf people earlier used to say deaf and dumb people used to say mute. Yeah, so that deaf Dumb Dumb is no longer. It's not there in the dictionary at all. Now for the deaf community. So either you can see speech and hearing impaired or speech impaired, but best is deaf. And same with visually impaired, we don't say blind It was vision impairment or visually impaired.

Kiran Somwanshi 19:22
I think the nomenclature is the thing we should start with first and that will change our attitudes

Yogesh Desai 19:28
correct.

Kiran Somwanshi 19:28
So, tell me something in your years of experience at the institute, how have you seen things changing as far as accessibility is concerned? And the job prospects are concerned

Yogesh Desai 19:38
See things are changing, of course, with the kind of population what we have in India, you cannot see and visibly change the next day but yes, things are changing and things are changing for good. In fact, Times of India also carries the news about government of Maharashtra which is going to set up a university for the deaf university for the persons with disability, it's a good sign. I personally am very optimistic things will happen. It takes time, but the efforts are on. I think, just like the transgenders, the way that things are happening right now where they can fight an election, I would love to see a political party giving a ticket to a speech and hearing impaired person or someone and say, Okay, you go and contest the election. I think when that thing happens, the scenario will definitely change. That's my belief.

Kiran Somwanshi 20:30
So what are the things that you teach your students, you know, when they're ready to kind of complete their education and get into the world? What do you tell them?

Yogesh Desai 20:39
See, we are very optimist. So we are very confident and for the people whom we are placed in the industry, we have placed some people with mastek we place some people with JP Morgan, we have placed some people with Amazon, Amazon Of course, it's a huge world for the persons with disability, then your reliance retail. So those are the people who are mass recruiters IKEA for one, they are the mass recruiters for persons with disability

Kiran Somwanshi 21:07
and are they paid also similarly equally as per the law,

Yogesh Desai 21:10
yeah, they are well paid today, on an average at the entry level job, they'll get around 15 to 20,000 rupee salary.

Kiran Somwanshi 21:19
When you mentioned about you know, you having placed some of your students in companies like JP Morgan Mastek, what kind of people they were like with multiple disabilities or...

Yogesh Desai 21:30
no, they were the persons with speech and hearing impaired. Morgan Stanley was the first employer to employ a person with multiple disability a deafblind person was employed there. And he was looking into the canteen inventory. And we had customized this inventory set up for him. We had gone and put Braille labels for him to identify what item is where, okay, but then later on. He found it difficult because he was traveling from Pune every day.

Kiran Somwanshi 22:06
Oh, Pune, Mumbai, everyday

Yogesh Desai 22:10
Yeah, Pune, Pune, Mumbai, and that too, he used to go to Malad. But then later on, he gave up

Kiran Somwanshi 22:17
could he get a good job in Pune again, after that.

Yogesh Desai 22:20
Now he is on his own he is doing some small, makeshift jobs, making some items selling it and earning a living,

Kiran Somwanshi 22:29
right. But have you heard from corporates expecting something out of you, as educators,

Yogesh Desai 22:36
we do keep on getting feedback that this is the area where and then we also fine tune our skill development programs. To that extent. Let's say I'm placing some people in the details segment. That segment is so changing fast, and they are adopting technology also, to such a fast extent that certain technologies we have to keep on first of all, we have to invest into that technology, get a simulation lab in our own institute, create that environment. So all that thing takes little time. And those areas are the ones where we have to focus a lot as a skilled developer, that you have, let's say for nowadays, the scanning facility where their barcode scanners or there's an auto checkout facility, so those kind of areas where we have to train people a little more, because of the technology advancements, which keeps on coming.

Kiran Somwanshi 23:34
The scenario is hopeful and improving. Technology has the potential to be a great leveler in this goal to achieve accessibility, but making it happen is easier said than done. I speak to Shilpy Kapoor, founder of barrier break solutions on how tech can be a blessing for people with disabilities. Thank you, Shilpy for joining in on the morning brief today.

Shilpy Kapoor 23:58
Thank you, Kiran for having me.

Kiran Somwanshi 23:59
Shilpy coming to the whole issue of employment of people with disabilities. How exactly tech solutions have made life easier and simpler.

Shilpy Kapoor 24:07
So when I started working with people with disabilities back in 1995, there was only one screen reader for visually impaired, it was called JAWS. Today, if you look at the ecosystem, we have a screen reader which is free called NVDA. Available. Microsoft Windows has a screen reader inbuilt into it, which is called Narrator or on the Mac, you have something called voice over, which is there and even the Android phones have TalkBack. So that's the shift that you're seeing. So today, you might have a child who has, let's say, a speech disorder and needs augmentive communication device. There was a time that you had to go and import these devices. Today, thanks to the mobile phone and some amazing apps that have come out there. You are seeing that the mobile device is making people with disabilities Just get included in society and mainstream. And all of these technologies are now moving towards becoming more inclusive. So I think that's the shift that I'm seeing Kiran.

Kiran Somwanshi 25:12
Yeah, that's pretty interesting. All the examples that you gave, and you know how they're used. There is also the whole thing about web accessibility. So what exactly it is, and how is it changing things?

Shilpy Kapoor 25:24
Basically, web accessibility is about providing people a choice of doing something the way they want to do it, using the technology they want to use. And that truly is web accessibility at its best. So it's about making your websites, your mobile apps, your career sites, your grocery shopping your intranet, and an organization accessible to people with disabilities.

Kiran Somwanshi 25:50
Right. So most of the websites today, especially the official ones, the government wants are the web accessible.

Shilpy Kapoor 25:57
So under the rights for persons with disabilities act, we today require that government as well as private websites, and mobile apps have to be accessible. So the law does require it today, are they that's a huge gap we have. So we have some amazing laws and policies, but we don't always have implementation. And that is one of the biggest struggles for us. So the government does have an accessible India campaign, and they are focusing on it. But we haven't been able to see the success that we should have seen from an implementation perspective. And as far as the private sector goes, they are yes, yet eluding us when it comes to the implementation of this law. And I think we need to take that more seriously, for us also, as a country.

Kiran Somwanshi 26:45
But tell me something I'm wondering, even in corporate India, we don't see that many disabled employees being hired. So the proportion is still very less as far as the total workforce is concerned. So how much companies are invested in this cause of accessibility and are investing in tech solutions for them?

Shilpy Kapoor 27:04
Youve Got it right, the percentage of employment is very, very low. And we do need to shift that the challenge that I see within that is that companies are surely committing to employing people with disabilities, whether internationally or whether in India today, the question is, they don't know how to go about doing this. Our People are not sensitized in these organizations to actually accept people with disabilities. So here is an example of something that, you know, we hear very often, where somebody who is deaf or hard of hearing goes for an interview, and then is asked, What if you can't communicate or cant hear? then how are we going to be able to talk to you now I employ a large number of people who are deaf and hard of hearing and barrier brain. And believe me, I have done no sign language class in my organization, people have learned sign language from the deaf, and they have taught each other to communicate, it is something that when you put people together to learn from each other, you build an inclusive culture. So I think companies wants to do this. But they struggle to build in a systemic culture and inclusive culture that will help them do it. So very often, it also starts from a charity approach, let us hire two people, and we'll see if you're truly committed to it, you have to go all out. And then the challenge that comes is, you know, how do you upskill them? How do you give them? Their increments? How do you give them new positions, if the person doesn't perform, can I terminate this employment, because they are scared of the optics of what we are seeing. Today 55% of our team comprises of people with disabilities. And the reason thats worked for us is because we don't treat them any different, because they aren't any different. And I think that's truly where inclusion starts to come.

Kiran Somwanshi 28:57
Right? And Shilpy in your experience and observation, what kind of companies or any particular sectors that are kind of leaders on accessibility.

Shilpy Kapoor 29:06
So today, you're surely seeing the tech sector, hiring people with disabilities. You've seen retail, hospitality, hire people with disabilities, and obviously in government is hiring people with disabilities. So that means public sector, etc. So those are the sectors that are surely taking it on,

Kiran Somwanshi 29:22
and Shilpi once they get hired, what are the benefits that you observed for both the parties, that is companies as well as people with disabilities?

Shilpy Kapoor 29:30
at the organization level? I think the first thing that you see is people learn to work with each other and diversity surely helps. So I think one is about culture. The second is obviously it's, it's the right thing to do. It's socially relevant, and we must do it. And I think the third thing is that you do find that people with disabilities are very loyal. Right? And this is an untapped base of people, which are ready to come out and do some of the amazing work that they can do, what you might have to provide is some upskilling, or training to them to be able to get to what you want them to deliver on. And if you're willing to do that, I think organizations will find a return on investment. So I think that's on the side of the corporates, on the side of people with disabilities, I think, obviously, it's about independence, it's about financial independence, being able to take home that paycheck right proudly without having to ask for some organization to give them a handout or a grant, or things like that. And also, people with disabilities within their own families are more recognized when they get employment, because you do find that looking at how India deals with the stigma around disability, so I think all of those things will just make us a better society.

Kiran Somwanshi 30:51
You know, during the pandemic, we all got much more digital savvy and digitally accessible. So what has changed as far as you know, people with disabilities is concerned.

Shilpy Kapoor 31:01
So on the one side, I'd say as in the pandemic was an opportunity and the other side, I'd say it was a huge challenge for them. So one of the things that people with disabilities have been asking for years has been, can we work from home, and today, that's an opportunity, I think that the pandemic has given because companies have become more and more ready to employ people with disabilities, because, you know, they're okay with saying, you can work from home rather than me changing my infrastructure. So I think that's the bone that we see. The challenge was, surely when all of these tech solutions were not accessible, right from a COVID certificate website, which was not accessible. So if you had to take an appointment for getting your COVID vaccination, you could not do that independently, you needed to get support from somebody, if you had to get groceries at home, a lot of the apps were barely accessible. So people with disabilities are great at managing, they are great at Jugaad is what I must say, because they found ways to support themselves and stay within that solution. But if every one of those solutions that was created or that was used during COVID could become accessible today, the lives of people with disabilities will be a lot easier. So I think the need for accessibility came out a lot more, the need to build inclusive products came out a lot more within COVID. And we've seen a lot of corporates adopt this, and they're now continuing to adopt this, what you need is we really need Indian, homegrown organizations to focus on this today. And they need to see the return. recall it, the carrot for them, whether it's the opportunity of a new target audience, which is untapped revenue that they will generate, because they also have the spending power like everybody else. And on the other side, you will see that in doing this, we might need to use the stick, which is legislation and there are lawsuits to help push the envelope.

Kiran Somwanshi 33:09
People with disabilities face a host of challenges to assert their financial and social independence. And it's not just the pool. Even the ones who can afford to educate themselves have to face obstacles in leading a normal life. Regular transaction such as opening a bank account or investing in a stock or checking one's PF balance, or even ordering groceries online can be a task for people with disabilities. Things are changing but quite slowly and not at the desired pace. The government of India launched the accessible India campaign in 2015. But even after numerous deadline extensions, the Ministry of Social Justice and empowerment is still hoping to make half of Indian government websites accessible. Most websites in the private sectors are also inaccessible for people with disabilities. If the online compliance is so poor, expecting physical infrastructure to become accessible anytime soon, would be a tall ask. So what's the way out? Firstly, creating awareness about the law and the rights of people with disabilities among corporates, small businesses and communities is important. As they say awareness is the first step towards change. Secondly, setting up a regulatory or legal authority that single handedly regulates issues related to people with disabilities, and finally, enforcing the punitive provisions of the law to have a deterrence effect against discrimination. At the end of the day, a mere spelling out the intent to make workplaces accessible is not enough. Companies need to walk the talk. And that doesn't mean mere ticking the box by hiring a few people with disabilities The idea is to ensure that the rising digitalization smart workplaces and driving down of efficiencies don't make companies exclusionary in nature. Of course, the government will need to have a carrot stick approach, beginning with its own departments and civil societies will have to look at accessibility as going beyond a charitable cause. Till then it's quite a work in progress. So that's it for today. This is your host Kiran Somvanshi from the economic times You have been listening to making India Inc accessible only on the morning brief. A big thank you to our guests, Amar Jain, Yogesh Desai, and Shilpi Kapoor for sharing their amazing insights. And thank you for tuning into this podcast brought to you by the team economic times.

Kiran Somwanshi 35:48
Show producer Sumit Pande, sound editor Rajas Naik, Executive Producer – Anupriya Bahadur, Anirban Chaudhary & Arijit Barman. We hope you liked this episode. Do share it on your social media networks. The morning brief drops every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. The morning brief is now streaming on Amazon Prime music and jio saavan Apart from Spotify, Apple and Google podcasts, and of course ET's own audio platform et play. Do tune into et play our latest platform for all audio content. Keep listening and have a great weekend.

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World Disability Day | Making India Inc Accessible | Podcast

(English podcast on ET Play)

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