This is an audio transcript of The Morning Brief podcast episode: Sarkari Savaari: Kerala Vs Uber Ola

BG Sound 0:01  

This is the morning brief from the economic times. 

Inga poona madam 

cash payment chalega 

Accha Dada Kothay Jabe. Bolon nah. Apnar Problem Ki. yedhi bolthai kothay jabe

Konjhu setha koodunga Madam konjha extra cost codonga please

Dia Rekhi 0:31  

for someone who doesn't drive and is almost completely reliant on Ola and Uber to get basically anywhere, there is not a day that goes by without me having to hear everything you just heard from cab and auto drivers. Getting rejected by cab drivers has become a way of life for me. And I'm sure it's something that everyone who has used these apps can relate to.

BG Sound 0:58  

One of the most annoying things about Uber is after you've booked your ride a driver will message you asking where your destination is and then immediately make up an excuse so would you please cancel the ride?

You know when I take an ola Their first question is where are you going? The second question is how are you paying? If I'm paying via Ola money it's a straight up No, they do not want to go anywhere.

Not only has the prices you know gone Skywards, it has also started becoming completely arbitrary. The same distance can be charged for 200 rupees one day and 450 rupees the next day. 

Dia Rekhi 1:40  

But here's where things take an interesting turn. That is meant to give the Ubers and olas of the world a right for their money.

BG Sound 1:48  

The Kerala government is all set to come up with a desi alternative to the popular corporate on end caps by launching its own e taxi service from next month considered to be the first such initiative with any state government in the country. Named as Kerala Savari, the online taxi hiring service is being rolled out by the state labor department linking the existing auto taxi networks in the state with an aim to ensure safe and dispute free travel for the public at affordable rates prevailing in the state. Addressing a press meet Minister for Education, Labor and skill development. V. Sivankutty said that unique service was also in research as a helping hand to the auto taxi labor sector, which is facing several challenges nowadays.

Dia Rekhi 2:32  

It's different from the online chauffeur driven car rental company with the same name and is the country's first government owned online auto taxi service. Possibly a first in the whole world. It is Friday, the second of September. I'm your host Dia Rekhi and you are listening to Sarkari savari Kerala versus Uber Ola on the morning brief.

But can they succeed? Will other state governments follow suit and launch their own apps? Will the drivers benefit from such an initiative? And most importantly, will such an app get people like you and me who have been spoiled by the convenience, comfort and familiarity of an Uber and Ola to switch platforms and change our habits? To find out I speak to the CEO of the Kerala Initiative, a venture capitalist specializing in mobility, a Delhi based director of a professional brown transportation company and my colleague to drive home all the questions I have in mind. So hop in and join the ride. 

Ranjith P. Manohar 3:52  

There are various the board is doing for Activity. 

Dia Rekhi 3:57  

That's Ranjith P. Manohar CEO of Kerala savari my co host Arijit Barman caught him while he was on his way to office. I wonder if he was sitting in one of the Kerala Savari vehicles? I guess we'll never know. But let's focus on what we do know over to you Arijit.

Ranjith P. Manohar 4:15  

In a welfare on board for drivers it's called Kerala movement control board and there are areas where the boards is doing for activities. So we created this platform whether Labor Department and Motor Transport Department and Police Department we created a platform with the help of Idi on as well as vibe of notify brake. Convenient, designed by the Government of Kerala and in addition to that 8% service charge that goes to the government 

Arijit Barman 5:10  

what triggered this initiative is it because the drivers are not getting a fair deal from these from ola or uber or because of customer inconvenience,

Ranjith P. Manohar 5:21  

there are so many things that both as well as the customer and the driver also there already, you know, come up with a platform. So it north India as well as the it is neccessary from the Bottom government to launch it. That's why we launched it , the security aspect is also covered under this because everything is foolproof. Some of the quarters will be that will go to the nearest police station and it's planned. So there's two aspects of proper no disputes between the buyer as well as the IRS and then I see I see is going on this online platform nowadays and we are promoting digital presently and all, I cannot comment on more thought on having helping and drivers as well as the owners and have a vibe without any problems for the owners and have a vibe without any problems for the customers also

Arijit Barman 6:28  

And Sir, are you going to make it available all across Kerala?

Ranjith P. Manohar 6:33  

Yeah, this is a private product with the honorable CM has flagged off everything is ready now after this, it will be available in all parts of Kerala. Then we will go for Metro Space Corporation Muncipality and then it will give me some simple designs and other areas.

Arijit Barman 6:49  

Do you think that this will actually make other states also think of On similar lines

Ranjith P. Manohar 6:55  

that other states must do? They are now doing it because it is an initiative

Arijit Barman 7:04  

that is true, great, great initiative

Ranjith P. Manohar 7:07  

if government of India takes it as a national thing, but it can be extended all over the country. If government of India thinks its right, they can also use a platform or something like that or have a sharing or something like that then everything will go right because our technology patner idea is good. 

Arijit Barman 7:31  

That is true. Thank you. Thank you so very much.

Dia Rekhi 7:35  

But context setting at this point is crucial to understand what the challenges are that Uber and Ola have been facing in India.

Kanika Saxena 7:43  

Last fiscal Ola reported a 65% year on year drop in the venue's added to it, there has been a significant drop in the number of drivers at both Ola, and Uber while the electric two wheeler has clearly overtaken the cab business at ola Ubers in action has only one assumable answer, which is the company thinks it has nothing to lose.

Dia Rekhi 8:09  

That's my colleague Kanika Saxena, who has been writing extensively for ET prime on how Uber and Ola promised the moon to their drivers, but then fail to deliver. So clearly, it seems everyone is unhappy. The customers like you and me, the policymakers. And of course, the most important stakeholders, the drivers who have to bear the brunt of rising fuel costs, high commissions, crazy work hours and have to deal with a cumbersome technology and payment system that many of them may not be adept at handling. Hmm. Did I leave anyone out? Well, let's find out. Thank you so much, Kanika, for joining us on The Morning Brief. And just to sort of start off the conversation. What are the challenges that Uber and Ola have been facing in India.

Kanika Saxena 9:01  

So, Ola and Uber are faced with challenges that they themselves cultivated. Now their operations in the country have opened a Pandora's box. And it includes ethical, legal, cultural, and managerial problems, brought to the table all at once. So Ola and Uber entered the mobility sector with promises of great incentives and flexibility. The commission rates were capped at 20%. And the drivers enjoyed the idea of earn as you work and work as you will, which has been a prominent factor that sells like hotcakes in a labor market. Now within a few years, the platform's started experimenting with whether they could charge the drivers more for these rights. So the slabs moved up from 20 to 25%, and then gradually moved up as high as 35 to 40%. Now it burns a deep hole in the pocket of drivers who have to manage not just the commission fee, but also a surge in fuel prices, GST Car Maintenance, EMI and personal expenses. Initially, the drivers didn't realize that they were being charged a higher commission rate. But when they did, things started going downhill for the platforms, the drivers were forced to tweak the system because the companies didn't care. And this has been a big reason behind drivers canceling rides, turning of ACS, or demanding payments in cash. Another challenge that the cab aggregators have repeatedly faced and failed to implement is the safety apparatus. The Panic Button system is hardly present in the cars on occasions when it does, it is unlikely to work and the in app safety button takes longer than expected to connect the passenger or the driver with an executive there has been a significant drop in the number of drivers at both Ola and Uber while the electric two wheeler has clearly overtaken the cab business at ola Ubers in action has only one assumable answer, which is the company thinks it has nothing to lose. 

Dia Rekhi 11:01  

But do you think they have nothing to lose? I mean, we're seeing a lot of new players coming into the system, sort of trying to plug in the gaps that there may be, do you see them being able to compete with Ola and Uber?

Kanika Saxena 11:15  

See the drivers are definitely looking for a way out by you know, either switching to other players such as rapido or blue smart or in rider or they are completely you know, turning towards delivery partner services like swiggy and Zomato. But you know, with other players, even the state owned actors, you know, coming into the picture that is going to be a stiff competition for Ola and Uber in the coming years.

Dia Rekhi 11:40  

Right. Do you see more states following this model? 

Kanika Saxena 11:43  

Kerala government's Kerala savari is the pioneer in being a state owned online taxi service. But previously some states did try to enter the ride sharing market for example, around 2014-15 Delhi government had launched Putcho driver app for booking taxi and auto rickshaw in Delhi NCR in the following years. Mumbai's local kaali peeli taxi drivers. They launched aamchi Mumbai app then in Karnataka, the state's ex chief minister, H D Kumaraswamy back HDK cabs However, after being stalled Midway, the company made a comeback as holy technologies and also the Kerala savari. Now, what's interesting is that the first phase of Kerala government's project aims to ensure is the promise that Ola Uber too made but have long forgotten about the service charge of Kerala savari remains 8% as opposed to 30-40% charged by Ola Uber Furthermore, Panic Button system would be mandatory GPS could be installed at a subsidized rate and both the passenger and driver can easily connect with down the clock control rooms of police stations fire force and even the motor vehicle department. So if done right, all these companies along with you know state back actors are going to pose a stiff competition to Ola and Uber and other states may definitely follow suit.

Dia Rekhi 13:03  

At this point, I felt it was necessary to get the venture capitalist in Kunal Khattar is a founding partner at advantege. An early stage fund focused on mobility across the Ev ecosystem, auto ecommerce logistics and shared mobility. And let me add that he had a completely different take on the whole thing from konica. How did you react when you read about the news of the Kerala government's initiative to start their own, you know, ride hailing service.

Kunal Khattar 13:37  

My first reaction, of course, was what's the government doing getting into any form of business? Historically, governments have not had tremendous success when they get into businesses of any kind, whether it's airline hospitality or technology. So I don't think it's a right precedence. But then I realized, you know, announcing something and actually executing and delivering it, and then making it successful are three different things. So I think we just have to wait and watch and see how this pans out.

Dia Rekhi 14:08  

When it comes to Uber and Ola. Right? They are among the most synonymous ride hailing services in the country. Do you think a state owned service like Kerala savari will find takers?

Kunal Khattar 14:21  

I think that's a complex question. demand exists supply exist, we can safely assume that it's an extremely complex problem to solve. And I just feel that, you know, government agencies and departments just don't have the talent or the DNA to solve for challenges at that level of scale. So I'm just a little skeptical of what they're trying to achieve, you know, even at the level and scale and the price point at which Ola and Uber are running operations, they're still struggling to achieve profitability. So for me, it just doesn't add up. 

Dia Rekhi 15:08  

Right. You mentioned specifically about the challenges that Uber and Ola have been facing. Can you tell us a little bit more about what the India's specific challenges are and how ride hailing apps are doing in general.

Kunal Khattar 15:23  

I think that's the number one thing we've got to recognize key difference between, say an India ride hailing platform to that in the US is that in India, there is a regulation that does not allow a privately registered vehicle, which we refer to as a white number plate to be used on these platforms. Government says that you need to have a commercially registered vehicle, which is a yellow number plate to come on. And Uber and Ola so it is not in the true sense of the word. A shared mobility platform in Uber, As you're all aware in the US 100% of the supply are private individuals who are using their existing personal vehicles to provide a service on a part time or full time basis. Which means that these are people who are not really looking at Uber and Ola as a means for working full time, at least most of them are working coming here and working part time. That opens up a supply that is potentially every single car owner in America has the ability to come on to Uber and Ola In India because of this unique regulation. We're actually getting full time professional taxi drivers to come on to Uber and Ola. Now, the minute you do that, there is expectation that you will earn enough to take care of your car, EMI, your maintenance your fuel, and earn a standard you know living wage, which means expectations are very high. I think that's probably if you ask me one of the biggest reasons why Uber and Ola are struggling to achieve that high level of profitability from a taxi owner or car owners point of view, because that scale is just not there. And if we try to increase prices, what happens is a majority of Indian gets priced out. It's actually India's predominantly a two wheeler market, not a four wheeler market in terms of what is affordable to majority of Indians, which is why we packed a company like rapido over four wheeler auctions.

Dia Rekhi 17:25  

Right? So interesting that you mentioned rapido, because I was just coming to that. Do you think that startups like rapido and others that are coming into the space and operating in the two wheeler sharing and two wheeler ride hailing space will do better in a country like India? What is your analysis of that?

Kunal Khattar 17:45  

Absolutely. So rapido succeeds, because of two reasons. One, of course, is the price point at the price point that a bike taxi operates almost 100 million Indians can afford to commute at that price. Secondly is the government has actually permitted personal mobility of people owning personal two wheelers to come on board on ride sharing platforms and, and work on a part time basis, which means that we have 214,000,002 wheelers owners in this country, therefore, there is almost an infinite supply available for a platform like rapido to source there. So for these two reasons, we think rapido business model is far superior, and therefore would be able to achieve scale, even though the ticket size is is probably a fifth of that of an Ola and Uber. Uber really was trying to duplicate their existing business model that achieved tremendous success in the US in India. And what we realize now, of course, is that if something works in America doesn't necessarily work in India,

Dia Rekhi 18:49  

but you know, Kunal, even in a place like Goa, Uber and Ola are not really allowed to operate. And now with Kerala doing this will other states follow suit,

Kunal Khattar 19:01  

I'm sort of not in favor of regulation, restricting the ability for customers to choose a solutions provider. If you ask me. I'm a strong proponent of free market. Yeah, you brought up goa as a great example, where ola, Uber is not allowed to operate because of the strong local taxi unions, etc. So what does that mean ultimately to the end users that they end up paying, you know, two to 3x of what they would pay for service like Ola and Uber was available, ultimately, who's losing out in the end? It's the end customer. I mean, if traditional taxis whether they are the Kaali Peeli as we refer to them colloquially, or they're the, you know, the taxi operators in goa, the government should allow everybody to operate and you be competitive, deliver good value. So there is a market for a premium private taxi operator. There's a market for ride sharing. There's a market for There's a price conscious customer who wants a bike, taxi, etc, that by stifling competition and preventing ride sharing apps to operate in a city are actually harming yourself. And you're, you're allowing people to deliver inferior product or service at a high price point. And that is what gave an opportunity for Uber and Ola to to establish itself and become market leader from from a scale point of view. I mean, if existing service providers would provide a great service at the right price, then why would customers move away from you know, other service providers and move over to Uber and Ola? So I think that you have to let free markets operate.

Dia Rekhi 20:38  

Also, when we're speaking about these apps, they were sort of here to make to kind of make customers lives easier. But you see social media flooded with complaints of people, you know, suffering bad pricing or bad experiences with drivers are multiple cancellations and so on. Do you think that this is something that these large companies should pay more attention to? Or are they quite unconcerned?

Kunal Khattar 21:09  

Well, I can assure you they're concerned, I don't think there's any service provider that has the ability to ignore their customers voice. If they do that they won't survive for long, businesses would have shut down by now if everybody on Uber and Ola was unhappy, or any other platform. So let's recognize that. So you have some quality service issues happening on these platforms. And the reason for that is it's recognize what caused that, of course, there was huge disruption in this sector because of COVID. Right now, everybody's out COVID is behind us. So demand is back, everybody's going to the malls, going to the movies, going out for a drink, colleges have opened offices, open but supplies, coming back slowly, slowly. This is the reason why there is a temporarily issue and some levels of dissatisfaction of rides, you know, getting cancelled supply not being available. So you've got a combination of things that's affecting the perception that Uber and Ola is a problem. And nobody's happy. And it's become very expensive, because again, social media is magnifying people who are complaining about this, but I think every society, every country needs services like this, and they're here to stay. I think it's just a question of time before things get into equilibrium.

Dia Rekhi 22:31  

Sure, and, you know, it seems like Ola and Uber definitely have riled up taxi drivers and unions in many states. So will we see this whole Kerala model? People taking some sort of inspiration from there, you see other states following suit in that sense? 

Kunal Khattar 22:50  

You know, Uber has always riled up unions and, and, you know, traditional taxi models all over the world. That's what a disrupter does, right. And the reason it was able to do that was because customers were paying exorbitant prices for substandard quality of service. You talked about the yellow cabs in Calcutta. And if you've ever been in, say, Delhi or Bombay, then you've used those traditional cabs. Honestly speaking, if you remember, what's the condition of those vehicles, right. So to say that, okay, we should unionize, and we should force customers to pay for, you know, a high price for poor quality product and not allow competition. I think that's not the way the government feels that they should create a tech platform like Savaari, go ahead, do that. But don't do it at the expense of saying, Okay, now that I've built a platform, not that I'm going to like Im not going to allow Ola and Uber to operate, well, why don't you compete with them, and you come in at a lower price point. And trust me at a lower price point means that you're going to provide probably not the best quality of service. So if you're, if you want to compete with them, that's fine. allow customers to vote with their wallet and allow the supply to also decide whether they want to be on Ola or Uber or they want to be, you know, on a government platform.

Dia Rekhi 24:07  

The next guest I spoke to Sandeep Wanchoo is a veteran when it comes to the transportation business with decades of experience. He's the co founder and director at mobility management services, which is looking to take the stress out of global companies by managing their ground transportation needs. I asked him about whether he felt state owned players can match the comfort and convenience that Ola and Uber provide customers, and whether they can compete with the deep pockets, tech abilities and marketing muscle that these companies come with. Here's what he had to say. Thank you so much for taking time out to be on the morning brief. And just to get the conversation started. Do you feel like this sort of a state owned ride hailing service can compete with the likes of an Ola and Uber

Sandeep Wanchoo 25:00  

See currently the only thing which is unique as far as the service is concerned, although it's more inclined towards auto rickshaws, and we are only talking of a city like Trivandrum, which is not one of the metro cities in India today. So the only thing which is different as far as Kerala Savaari is concerned is that Commission's which I think they're charging the government charging, I think around 8% against a private guy who would work at a spread of around 20 to 30%. So definitely there is scope, there is scope to organize things. The important thing is how many states respond to it. Kerala has always been proactive as far as these initiatives are concerned, but I'm not sure how well would states really be able to implement this,

Dia Rekhi 25:41  

right. But why is there this sort of backlash against Uber and Ola Is it because they've been exploitative,

Sandeep Wanchoo 25:48  

Two three things. One is when the Ola Uber when they were launched in the country, the kind of commission structures which are being offered to the drivers were non sustainable. And this was primarily because they were private equity funded. And one knew for sure that this kind of commission structure is non sustainable, and it would not run in the long run. And that is exactly what has happened. The other issue was, as far as surge pricing is concerned. Now that's something which Ola Uber exploited to the hilt. And the third important thing is you cannot talk to anybody in these organizations, because there is no face they are a faceless organization that when you can at best call up Helpline Numbers, which are very, very slow to react to complaints. The safety was another issue. Quality of cabs has deteriorated. And I don't think there was any kind of check which has gone on to check whether what's the quality of the cabs, and therefore there's no consistency of service, as far a Ola and Uber are concerned in the country.

Dia Rekhi 26:47  

Right? And do you feel like for this specific purpose, and to plug these gaps, we're seeing a lot of new players coming in with more India focused models, if I can call it that. Do you see that happening? 

Sandeep Wanchoo 27:01  

Then in NCR, we witness Bluesmart, which obviously is operating on electric platform, they don't operate on normal IC engines, and Bluesmart. Since it's private, equity funded, they're adding on to their fleet. The drivers are new, the cars are clean, since the cars are new, people are finding a pleasant change. And also, since it's electric, the impact on carbon emissions is certainly point which can be taken into consideration. So Bluesmart is very, very visible in NCR and they've been extremely active, as far as visibility is concerned.

Dia Rekhi 27:38  

Sure. But would it be safe to say that because of an Ola and Uber, the traditional trade of taxi drivers and unions and so on, have finally got their act together and are trying to sort of regain lost ground, which is why we're seeing all of this action happening in this space.

Sandeep Wanchoo 27:56  

Yeah, for sure. I'll give you an example of Bangalore City airports, the Bangalore airport is about 40 kilometers or 45 kilometers from the main city. And today, what's happened is these guys are formed a WhatsApp group. And if you want to get a cab, it's very easy if you have access to anybody on this group, because there's somebody or the other who's in proximity to the airport. And this is an informal arrangement of about 150 odd people who have gotten together and formed this group. So likewise, I see this happening at a lot of locations. It's an informal kind of structure. But people are actually joining hands together now, which was not happening pre COVID.

Dia Rekhi 28:36  

Sandeep, what is a hurdle that India needs to address immediately when it comes to ride hailing? 

Sandeep Wanchoo 28:42  

So, you know, one observation is in India, I don't know why is there a differentiation between a yellow plate and a black and white plate, I mean, ideally, everything should be one pool, so that the pool is much bigger. So we've I think, ourselves shot ourselves in the foot by going in for these yellow plates and for commercial registration and for different set of rules for commercial cars, which I have not seen in other countries. So if you have a black and white plate, which is allowed to operate as a taxi, during free time, anybody can now create this as a whole. So why restrict people to buying you know, plates and then going through a convoluted taxation structure?

Dia Rekhi 29:18  

Right. But when it comes to something like Kerala Savaari, I'm going to take you back to that, with these kinds of huge discounts that they give. How can a state owned sort of app compete with companies that have deep pockets like an Ola and Uber? How do you see that playing out?

Sandeep Wanchoo 29:39  

No, it can happen if all the states get together? Now, the first important thing is each state will think differently, because ultimately, it's the bureaucracy which would run these models and India. Each state is a complex structure. I mean, it's as good as running a country in Europe. So I'm not sure as to say on all these Initiative, a great board initiatives which typically emanate from South South India, I'm not sure whether North India, West India or eastern part of the country would actually follow and follow this model. So, let's see how things pan out, but there is definitely scope.

Dia Rekhi 30:14  

Sure. So, if I were to just ask you a broad question, which is what do you see as the future of ride hailing in India, what would you say?

Sandeep Wanchoo 30:23  

So, what has happened is there is a huge movement which has happened as far as mobility is concerned across the country and the important pieces this is what we typically call as point to point travel but upon as far as point to point movement is concerned, it's extremely important because public transportation is still continues to be extremely weak in the country.

Dia Rekhi 30:53  

It isn't just companies that are looking to innovate and find a sustainable model that can match the deep pockets of these ride hailing giants. It is also cab drivers like Mohammed Asif Khan, who are looking at ways to compete with these organized fleets.

Arijit Barman 31:08  

Sir, Thoda hi badha hai. Baaki waisa nahi hai. Baaki Thangi ke yeh haalat mein sab chal raha hai. 

Gas aur tel ka dhaam badh gaya hain.  

BG Sound 31:19  

Wahi baat hai nah Sir. Abhi jab hamara meter jho tha, tho gas kitna 38-40 rupaiya hota tha. abhi uska double jaake pahuncha hai. Kamai wohi hai, meter wahi hai. tho woh tho apne jeb mein se jaa raha hai nah sir. Woh jo chaalis rupaiya penthis rupaiya ban gaya hai ek kilo ke peeche woh tho apne hi sar se jaa raha hai. Yeh wajeh se bahot takleef hota hai. Ola Uber ho ya paryaa ho jinki chiyasi rupaiya cng ho gaya hai sir. Jo paisa chaalees rupaiya cng tha woh paisa milta tha. Ab cheyasi ho gaya hai wohi paisa mil raha hai. yeh chaalees bayalees joh painthalees rupaiya badaya hai yeh tho apne hi jeb se jaa raha hai nah sir

Arijit Barman 31:57  

Tho aapko aapko kabhi Mann nahi karta hai Ki mein full time Ola Uber pe chala jaon? Janjhat kam hai. Ya yehi better hai tumhare liye? 

BG Sound 32:04  

Nahi sir. apna behetar yeh bhi nahi hai isiliye tho dhandha paani nahi milta tha. Ola Uber chalayenge sir do do teen teen sau liter gaadhi chal jayegi. usme bhi wohi haalat. cng dhalo tho haath mein kuch aata nahi tha. dono same hi hai.

Dia Rekhi 32:23  

State owned or not. ride hailing is here to stay in some form or the other. Uber and Ola may have problems galore. But it is that can't live with them can't live without them sort of conundrum, ask me. Of course, if there's an app that is easy to use, and provides me with the same comfort and those price slashing coupons. I wouldn't have an issue switching at all. But in all these years, that hasn't happened for me at least. But it's quite evident that the two most funded companies in this space are plagued with chronic neglect, lack of focus high attrition and supply side constraints. Once the darling of investors they are facing severe speed, bumps and nimbler players are disrupting them. And with new players in the fray, these companies will also have to gear up for increased competition. And that's never a bad thing for customers at least. And now with the state government taking the helm and putting its might behind a homegrown app. It might just nudge other states to push the accelerator on similar initiatives by its own accounts over generated 44,600 crore rupees worth of value for the Indian economy in 2021. Even if we take this at face value, can any politician worth his slogans ignore the wider socio economic impact that these ride hailing companies have just consider two heads, the jobs they potentially create and the tax revenues they generate. While you ponder over that, I will continue to beg my cab drivers to take me literally everywhere and incentivize it with a cash rather than a digital payment. Thank you Kanika Kunal and Sandeep. I'm your host Dia Rekhi and you are listening to Sarkari savari. Kerala versus Uber Ola on the morning brief credits for the episode, producer Sumit Pande from The Economic Times sound engineer Rajas Naik from The Economic Times, Executive producer Anupriya Bahadur and Arijit Barman from The Economic Times. If you liked this episode, do share it on your social media. Tune in to ET play our latest platform for all things audio including your favorite podcast The Morning Brief. Our episodes drop every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. I hope you enjoyed listening to this episode. Have a great weekend. Goodbye and good luck. All external sound clips used in this episode belong to their respective owners credits are mentioned In the description

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