This is an audio transcript of The Morning Brief podcast episode: Art of Giving: Unicorns Rising​

BG Sound 0:01
This is the morning brief from the economic times.

Arijit Barman 0:23
Diwali season of giving mithai, New clothes, electronics, maybe even a new car or a house, giving our lives a fresh coat of paint in the middle of all the daily humdrum. Remember earlier in the week, my co host Mugdha, talking about how shoppers are giving their arm and a leg to avail all the online discounts? Well, that's the story of PLUs. The people like us. But what about those who are less fortunate? Or underprivileged? Shouldn't we think about them too. In this episode, we decided to ask two young and very, very successful founders and a season venture capitalist. What they think of giving back is it tax planning, like several of their older peers, or something far more deeper.

Prashanth Prakash 1:31
what one might require today is more distribution on the top. And I don't think this can happen by compulsion, uh, you know, the government can easily mandate it to a certain extent they should, by virtue of things like inheritance tax, you know, but at a certain level, it would have to come out of you know, people volunteering it benevolent capitalism in a way,

Arijit Barman 1:54
do they all multimillionaires, and in some cases, billionaires look at it as a moral responsibility or an obligation, or it's simply a call for action.

Prashanth Prakash 2:08
Philanthropy is a way of contributing your responsibility to build our society and country. I think that's how it has to be placed. And I fundamentally believe it's nothing to do with how much money you have. It's a mindset.

Arijit Barman 2:26
Several of them have already taken the young Indian philanthropic pledge. And that's an interesting concept we're going to talk about. And I've already set the ball rolling in Karnataka, working on literacy and education. But this they say, is just the beginning.

Prashanth Prakash 2:47
The good news, I think, is that maybe just couple decades ago, this got re initiated with the new tax it entrepreneurs that came up from the Infosys and Wipro era. And I would argue that I think Bangalore, kind of seeded that trend again, with what Nandan and Rohini and Azim Premji and Kiran are started doing and it's very interesting that it was actually it was not just about giving and if you see, there are different ways in which now, some of these folks are contributing from Bangalore nation printing. So I think these are new role models, and has taken a different color in Bangalore. And that's great.

Arijit Barman 3:39
It's Friday 21st October, from the economic times. I'm your host Arijit Barman, you're listening to the art of giving unicorns rising. Over the next 30 odd minutes, we chat with three very special guests, Nikhil Kamath, Co-founder Zerodha and Truebeacon, Sujeet Kumar, Co-founder Udaan.com, and Prashant Prakash partner at venture capital firm Accel all proud bangaloreans all super achievers in their own rights. Gentlemen, welcome to the Morning Brief. Prashant, I want to come to you first and you know step back a bit and compared to the other two young Turks, you have seen more of the world and more of Bangalore ochestra, you know before the philanthropic movement gathered real steam globally, as well as in India. It actually took roots right here in India with pioneers like Jamshedji or Dorabji. Tata, in fact, the Parsi community, as a community has done a lot not just for themselves and their own community but to nation building, per se. Building colleges, hospitals, etc. After that, for many decades, we seem to have lost our way on whether giving should be one of our core objectives of wealth creation. Do you agree? And why do you think that's changed?

Prashanth Prakash 5:17
Yes Arijit. I think that's a very good observation on your side that while during the era of the Tatas, they did set global benchmarks and what it meant for giving. But then almost for about three, four decades, we somehow lost that initiative or that early focus. And the good news, I think, is that maybe just couple decades ago, this got re initiated with the new tech, it entrepreneurs that came up from the Infosys and Wipro era. And I would argue that I think Bangalore, kind of seeded that trend again, with what Nandan and Rohini and Azim Premji and Kiran started doing. And it's very interesting that it was actually it was not just about giving. And if you see, there are different ways in which now, some of these folks are contributing from Bangalore and nation building, and Nandan did it in his own way, in what he was able to build as infrastructure, the best world class digital infrastructure. So I think these are new role models, and has taken a different color in Bangalore. And that's great, you know, once once somebody has acquired personal wealth, and there is nothing going wrong and getting good amount of personal wealth, what next has been redefined, in some sense by some of these folks in Bangalore, and it's good to see that those role models,

Arijit Barman 6:54
correct. Absolutely. Nikhil, you represent Young India, both you and Nitin, you know, so does sujeet. But you know, when I speak to many entrepreneurs, and this is cutting across age groups, and generations, and wealth creators, now they tell me one very simple thing, they said, boss, if I have as much money as Mr. Premji and Mr. Bill Gates, I will also be very generous. Now, are we approaching it in a wrong way? In the first place? Is there such milestones that you need to have that I need to have $10 billion in my bank account? Only then will I be a giver? You know, there are many modest wealth creators, who are generous givers as well.

Nikhil Kamath 7:40
I like Arijit that you're calling me young and being youth and all of that,

Arijit Barman 7:45
of course, you are

Nikhil Kamath 7:46
Im 36, I'm going to be 40 soon.

Arijit Barman 7:50
It's just a number.

Nikhil Kamath 7:52
Let's say that. But I get when people say, you know, it's probably easier for Azim Premji or Bill Gates to donate money than it is for I've thought about this a little bit, I think for a person who has a billion dollars to donate a million dollars is significantly easier than someone who has a million donating say $10,000. So there is some sense in the statement that it is easier for them to give money. But I don't think giving should be categorized in terms of money alone, and nor should it be categorized in terms of quantum that one has given the intent very much has to be to you know, make the community more inclusive, where people participate in both the successes and the problems of the community. And even if it's not, you know, giving in the same scale, as somebody who has gotten luckier might be doing, I think, starting to volunteer starting to give time starting to give smaller contents to the community, in itself is a big change. And I think that would be a good first step to get more people involved.

Arijit Barman 8:58
Correct. And Sujeet, you know, I've seen this, especially this bond of fraternity amongst startup founders, when it comes to mentoring. So in a way, it is also giving back to stakeholders, like young fledgling entrepreneurs, what have you learned from, you know, coming to you, looking up to you as a mentor? Giving money is probably the easy part. But would you say that, you know, in your mind when we talk about giving back, these are also different manifestations of giving back, you know, spending time with an entrepreneur who say, boss, I don't know whether, you know, this idea works.

Sujeet Kumar 9:37
Yeah, it's a great question. Giving back in India, we have to bring the institutional aspect to it. Like today giving back people are not able to understand if I'll give, where it will impact where this resources will go, how it will improve. I think bringing the accountability in the system will encourage more and more People who have resources to contribute and improve the society in general and contributing in the nation building. So I think it's everybody responsibility people like us people at every level, like giving back has a different aspects, I believe, not only money sharing your knowledge at how where it will bring the impact, we have to build an institution around it. So we can say that hey, these are the islands where Azim Premji is giving Tata is giving and all but we have to build an institution around.

Arijit Barman 10:30
True. Nikhil, just before going to Prashant, I wanted to ask you another question, which is, you know, most of our current generation of business owners are incredibly blessed to have wonderful parents, great education. Some are even born in well to do or upper middle class families. Now I have seen that entitlement to inheritance to wealth, and business getting ingrained in children, most unfortunately, males most of the time, right from when they are young. And it is assumed as a Completer. Right. By the time one becomes an adult. Do you think your generation thinks differently about societal issues and philanthropy than the previous generation?

Prashanth Prakash 11:20
I would have hoped to say yes, but unfortunately, I don't think it is true. We live in a capitalistic society at the end of it. And in the defense of capitalism, in many ways, it works better than socialism, communism, or the other examples, history has shown us wealth creation and wealth hoarding is generally a byproduct of capitalism, I would say to a certain extent, the equality and disbursement of wealth is also a byproduct. And I don't necessarily think of this as a bad thing. What one might require today is more distribution on the top. And I don't think this can happen by compulsion, this can't happen by you know, the government can easily mandate it to a certain extent, they should, by virtue of things like inheritance tax, you know, but at a certain level, it would have to come out of you know, people volunteering it benevolent capitalism in a way. And I think people are realizing that the younger ones are realizing it faster than the older ones. So to your original question, I'll say this, if I were to talk to a 15 year old, I think he would be a lot more woke in terms of what society requires, compared to a 50 or a 60 year old person today. And I think that trend is good. So these changes are happening in society organically in the right direction. So what we need you know, is champions like sujeet, like Prashant, like all the people who are getting involved in being more more vocal today, we need people like that to expedite this trend, which is occurring already.

Arijit Barman 13:01
Correct. But Prashant, it's woke to be woked these days. But Do people really act on it? Or is it still lip service?

Prashanth Prakash 13:11
So I'll just pick up on little bit on what Sujit was saying. And Nikhil has been talking about, I think it's also a shift in thinking. And that takes time. And you also spoke about the first generation of this giving has come from people who are billionaires. So there are two things that have happened, right? So you had the billionaires giving. And second is, you have the corporate CSR type of giving, right? So individuals who are not billionaires and who have more wealth than what they can use, and this could be as low as somebody who has more than 100 crores, right, you can argue that there's not much use, money can be for them. Right. So they definitely can start even with 100 crores of wealth to say that I'd like to give away one or two or three crores every year. So that's really the point, right? So, one, they need mechanisms. And that's the whole idea of what Nikhil and Sujeet, and these folks have come up with this idea of getting people like minded people together, we can get peer pressure of the right kind to go that extra mile to nudge people and get them to do this faster, than if they individually were just in isolation thinking about this. So I think it's about frameworks and institutions like via BP? You know, the pace of wealth accumulation with the top end person is probably faster in the last five years, 10 years, and it will be even more faster in the next 10 years. As we become a five $7 trillion economy.

Arijit Barman 14:50
Correct

Prashanth Prakash 14:51
How are we going to tackle the other side of it? And now I'd like to bring the whole startup aspect of this right its The urgency of it, it's the practicality of it. It's the right direction of this wealth. All of that, I think is a mindset change. And I will call it as giving 2.0. And can we make a difference collectively, to say that in the next 25 years, we'll do more than what has happened in distribution, and equitable sharing than what has happened in the last 75 years? That's the new challenge. And that's what I'm so happy that we have entrepreneurs today like Nikhil and Nitin and six, seven other folks who have joined Ypp. Yes, we have taken this up as a challenge.

Arijit Barman 15:39
We'll talk at length about that initiative, but sujeet, your life story from Sasaram to Bangalore, it's truly resonates with the name of your company.

Sujeet Kumar 15:53
It's a nurturing place.

Arijit Barman 15:55
Okay. But it resonates with the name of your company Udaan at a fundamental level. Therefore, do you believe that we as individuals, must be philanthropic?

Sujeet Kumar 16:09
I think philanthropy is a great idea. So I don't have a doubt on that. But somewhere, philanthropy has also associated with the people who have lots of money and they can really give, I think that's a wrong notion. We have to make it as a movement, philanthropy is a way of contributing your responsibility to build a society and country. I think that's how it has to be placed. And I fundamentally believe it's nothing to do with how much money you have. It's a mindset. And with that mindset only comes when you see the fairness impact accountability, why people are not contributing, if you will create Glaze or heads, they don't know what is happening, where it's going, who is enjoying this money. And you know, there are several story am I right, I'm not saying good hasn't happened. But there are several examples, bad examples where you are saying, I don't know where my money is going. So the people are able to see the impact, I don't believe fundamentally the kind of culture we have, they will contribute to the society and that's called philanthropy, we have to associate the rich people only can do the philanthropy that no sir has to go away.

Arijit Barman 17:28
Correct. Correct. Now, Nikhil, if we expand the topic, and you know, just talk more about giving back, you know, giving back can be as Sujeet was saying, giving back to your ecosystem, mentoring other startup founders, helping them really open sourcing the knowledge pool that can be also giving back in a way, where I am a little disappointed in Sujeet can also join is that when I look at many of your peers, I feel in their quest to get rich very quickly. They often misuse their power in say, things like granting esops to key management personnel, inevitably they get the lion's share. So there is a feeling of this is my company, mera paisa syndrome that's creeping in. And it's contradictory to what they say, in public visibly giving back and being equitable to all stakeholders. But Charity begins at home, right?

Nikhil Kamath 17:28
Well, to be honest, Arijit, like for a vast majority of startup founders, people in our ecosystem, very few have really seen any liquidity. You know, it's all virtual equity and virtual money that we're pushing around on a monopoly table in a way. But coming to your question about why startup founders are not maybe sharing enough equity or as much equity as one should? I think it's a very subjective question. Each one is different, you know, when a VC is involved or a foreign investor is involved, I think it changes things significantly. I don't really think it is as simple for someone to go give equity to a employee or a colleague, in a highly funded company as it might be in a privately run company. I think when many people come together to decide what a company should do, the rules are different. And I don't think it's right to judge any of these guys, because I don't really know what circumstances they might be operating.

Sujeet Kumar 19:32
I wanted to say, and you can say that might be I haven't met all the people in the ecosystem. But I can safely say that more than 90% of the people who I talked in a startup ecosystem. They definitely have the inclination toward to give back to society. So I don't have any doubt. Here they will not. I think, also, again, you have to see the fine line, but the way media or the way they publish This person has made this much of money headline, okay. In comparison to the person who is doing the betterment for the society contributing from the wealth or giving time, I think there's a huge imbalance, the people are more attracted by making more money. So I'm not saying that's bad, and that's against the capitalism. But this somewhere, we have to balance those aspects, also like impact aspects . And this will only take safe, if we'll encourage people, a startup ecosystem founder and the people who are in that all of them, employees, investors, they understand those aspects of it. Because when they see the journey of idea, it becomes the product, and then it becomes the business and become the profitable. I think the same logic goes even in the philanthropy also.

Arijit Barman 20:47
Correct?

Prashanth Prakash 20:49
Yeah Arijit, I'll just chime in this. Yeah, I think what Sujeet is talking about is that the smartness of the initiative, and the ability for them to understand that this is transformational. And their ability to relate to it is very important. So there needs to be innovation, and creativity, also in the projects, and the impact and scale that these projects can get to the right,

Arijit Barman 21:19
there's no dispute in that Prashant. only What I was trying to say is that if we accept that Charity begins at home there at times seems to be a bit of a discordant note when you see founders, rewarding themselves, sometimes at the time at the expense of the company. And it always becomes a tennis match between the venture capitalists aspirations, versus the company versus shareholders. And it gets amplified in listed companies where we've seen, you know, in the recent IPOs, and companies which have gone public, and there's been a whole debate, I mean, this debate is a raging debate. So that's where I'm coming from that, if you agree, I mean, that philanthropy What sujeet Nikhil is saying is absolutely valid points and taken, but the fact that somewhere, there is that inequality, that this is still my company. So the charity isn't really beginning at home. That's where I was, I was coming from, and I was using the ESOP pool, and granting of esops as a case study.

Prashanth Prakash 22:26
Yes. So one is the SOPs? And I would say, and we have a wide range of companies, so I can tell you Arijit that there are companies where this has been an like, Nikhil was saying it's based on the founder based on the investors who are involved in the company, but there are enough companies where you know, more than 15 to 20% of the equity is shared in the form of ESOP. Right. So that's the good news that there is definitely good examples. And I think those companies will be able to do better in the long run, and hopefully, will become better role models for everybody to start doing that. And like, in a small way, some of the early IT services companies demonstrated in the country . But the second aspect is about the said, entrepreneurs, flaunting wealth or, you know, using wealth in

Arijit Barman 23:22
or gifting themselves the most number of shares, I mean,

Prashanth Prakash 23:25
most number of shares, right. So I would say that there is a good examples of sharing also and entrepreneurs saying that, you know, ultimately investors also have a fiduciary responsibility, because they have raised money from global institutions. So they have to return that money, right. So that . So there is a set of competitive dynamics here, between how this wealth needs to be shared, understood, and that has to you know also be kept in mind. But I think it's also about venture funds, right? So venture funds and venture capitalists also have great wealth creation opportunities, and a lot of venture capitalists will also create a lot of personal wealth. And entrepreneurs look up in many cases to as much as they do to other co founders were being successful, as much to other venture capitalists. So I think there is also a responsibility on venture capitalists to being good role models and, you know, demonstrate this giving.

Arijit Barman 24:34
Absolutely, Prashant The other thing I wanted to ask you before I get into the Young India philanthropic pledge is, you know, when you have started on this giving journey, what do you believe, is the right balance between consumption and how much to hold on to and how much to give, you know, how much or mass or once giving must be done in one's lifetime

Prashanth Prakash 24:59
Arijit, this is a very good question. And I think where I've arrived at and to some extent, Nikhil and me have had multiple discussions on this, and where we think is a sweet spot is around that 25%. I think 25% is what we, at least I've started to think about as my starting point, in terms of how much you should look at giving, in terms of my own personal comfort.

Arijit Barman 25:27
Right. Now, let's talk about the young Indian philanthropic pledge. Nikhil, let me ask you, how did it get galvanized? What does it really aim to do?

Nikhil Kamath 25:40
Yeah, so I think the idea is that, Arijit, I don't think it matters, who started when it started? it's more about who all are together and what we're trying to do. And the idea with Yipp is it does not belong to anybody nor are there any, you know, leaders of YIPP or anything like that, what we intend for it to be as a group of like minded people who can leverage each other's strengths and knowledge and come together to build projects, which at the end of the day at the core are really effective. I think, even if we're doing our first project around education or the second one around nutrition, the key for us is how far X amount of money goes unlike other charities out there, which collect money Yipp does not collect any money. So, it becomes a very efficient mechanism to decide where to allocate money and for people to come together and decide to give money together.

Arijit Barman 26:39
So, you select the cause, and then in your tribe, you contribute towards making that cause work. Is that how it works?

Nikhil Kamath 26:49
Correct? Correct. YIPP is more like, is a body of people who want to contribute together, but they come together and do it. To YIPP but not giving money to Yipp. They give money to the ultimate cause direct.

Arijit Barman 27:04
I see. Prashant, you've signed a rather three year memorandum of understanding with the Department of school education, and literacy in Karnataka government of Karnataka. As Sujeet's been emphasizing that it's not just about writing cheques, one needs to monitor and see if it's really reaching the people. How are you planning to do that in this particular case?

Prashanth Prakash 27:29
Good question. So we have spent a reasonable amount of time upfront and this education project and a few other projects that we're conceptualizing to make sure one, we don't do a lot of grounds of pre creation of what has already been tried and tested in different ways. And second, is the kind of accountability part. And the third part of this NGO, 2.0 is there is a lot of efforts in education, which are all silo. So one of the big things that we've been able to do that if there are 10, things that really need to happen to make a school, go from a government school today to go from point A to whatever level level three or four or five to make it be on par with any good school, whether private or another government school. Today, there are interventions, where there are each NGOs doing a very small component of it, but they don't have a platform to bring it together and make that impact. And that's the other change that approach that we are bringing.

Arijit Barman 28:36
And you plan to take it beyond Karnataka, or Rope in more districts now I think it's four districts of Karnataka, but are you looking to expand?

Prashanth Prakash 28:46
Yeah, so here, there's another interesting aspect of this NGO 2.0 this next generation of impact modeling that we are doing in all our companies, what scale usually entails is creating a blueprint or what we call as a playbook. Right. So once you do it in one city, can you replicate it? Or once you've done it for a type of audience? Can you extend it? So while we have conceptualized we are also doing the right, kind of capturing the right elements and capturing what it takes to make this a blueprint in terms of concept in terms of infrastructure, the type of pedagogy that is being put in place, the school aggregation model that we are putting in place. So all of this becomes a easily replicable model for other

Arijit Barman 29:31
correct. Sujeet. You know, it's always fun, at least for me to go back to the classroom. are you guys planning to give an hour or two every month on this in the sense, even maybe go visit, even teach? Is that something you thought of?

Sujeet Kumar 29:49
So if you'll ask me Have you been given the structure like this much of No, I haven't done that.

Prashanth Prakash 29:57
Arijit. I'd like to give an example here of a colleague of Sujit from Flipkart, who is a serial entrepreneur who started Cult and now Eat fit Ankit Nagori. Anki has started a foundation, which provides sporting infrastructure and sporting capacity building in the not so privileged schools. And he is, for example, one of the platform elements I was talking about, right. So he's one of the partners in this platform where we are transforming schools. And he personally spent most of his time going to the schools and also managing and running this foundation, which will be part of this transformation project. So we are starting to see example, where people are taking a passion, building an institution out of that passion, and then collaborating with a platform like what we're bringing together to make change happen faster.

Arijit Barman 30:56
Very, very interesting. Now, we are running out of time, just two last questions quickly, want to Nikhil? You know, over the last decade or so, as you said that there's a new generation of philanthropists, who've emerged among professionals and young entrepreneurs, who are giving not just large percentages of their wealth back, they're also leaving their careers at their peak, to do something for society that they're really passionate about. Do you see more of that emerging?

Nikhil Kamath 31:27
Yeah, I have people personally, or colleagues of mine today, who gave up really high fly careers to be working, you know, in a role where they're focused around giving in all of these projects, I think the media plays a big role, I think you should not undermine the power you have. In many ways, even today, media kinda narrates What is cool, what is relevant in society. If tomorrow you start covering charitable work, significantly larger time allocated to that, then you know, people holding Well, within a matter of time, you will find the youngsters of today who are reading your media articles, they will start to believe that giving is cooler than hoarding, and I think the media plays a huge part in this. And maybe it's also something for you guys to you know, come together in thinking about

Arijit Barman 32:19
Absolutely. Prashant, the last word to you. You know, recently, I was reading an article that the founders of Patagonia, their outdoor apparel, and athleisure brand, the founding family, they transfer the ownership of the company, which is valued at around 3 billion to a specially designed trust, and another nonprofit organization. They were created largely to preserve the company's a independence, and ensure that all their profits, which is around 100 odd million in a year, are used to combat climate change, and protect undeveloped land around the globe. The structure itself many would argue because they've gifted their shares is a very tax unfriendly move. But the bigger question Prashant is therein lies the rub, in the sense that billionaires and corporations whose rhetoric about making the world a better place is often overshadowed completely by the contribution to the very problems they claim they want to solve. And Patagonia is such a refreshing change that, you know, I'm using that example. Isn't that rampant in India.

Prashanth Prakash 33:34
So I think there is an opportunity in many types of businesses to create this kind of what people now call as double bottom line kind of business or just being more mindful of the negative impact that your business may be creating. And going beyond that, and committing to, like you said, something, which is very unique, like in the case of Patagonia, but what we are trying to here maybe see, really the early first generation of some of this Arijit, right? So it's maybe very early, but you can never say, you know, you might see a good example, in our country too very soon where somebody will actually make a move, like what you've seen at Patagonia, but I think you'll see some initiative that will come from Yipp or other like minded folks in India, where we want companies to think about sustainability. And Nikhil and Nithin work on a project called rain matter where they are trying to encourage these kinds of companies. So it's early days, but I'm confident that like we have done in the other aspects of our startup journey in this country. We have learned very fast, we will also learn very fast and how to make ourselves less of a burden, like you said to our environment and go beyond that into something like Patagonia.

Arijit Barman 35:10
No, I'm sure you would. And YIPP is certainly a very interesting and inspiring initiative startup. And all that we can say, from our team is let the force be with you. You know, it's a famous line from Star Wars. I've grown up immortalizing that film and it's a cult. So I would say only this that let the force be with you.

Arijit Barman 35:38
My take -ages ago, I met a top industrialist. And during our conversation, somehow the topic of philanthropy came up. Pat came his answer. It's all about bookkeeping and accountancy, he said, and quoted a section from the Income Tax Act. I was zapped at his answer. As I had no idea what he was talking about. His assistant later told me, he was referring to tax planning section of the rule book that I thought was one hell of a cynical way to look at this issue. In a country, so stuck with inequality, the excesses of 1% is simply vulgar. It's true in most of the emerging market economies, I do not want to quote Data Statistics, or studies, because we all know it, see it, feel it every day of our lives. But what gives me hope, is for many of our new and young entrepreneurs, it's a whole new approach to life and living and giving back as well. It's not just about writing a cheque, and then forgetting about it, but making it really count by getting involved. A friend once told me to be a good Christian, or a good Muslim. One needs to do social service. I'm sure that is the tenet of every religion. After talking to Nikhil, Sujit and Prashant, I'm quite certain that this festival of lights will show us the way towards a better, more equitable way of living and sharing as well.

Prashanth Prakash 37:30
Wishing everyone very happy Diwali.

Nikhil Kamath 37:33
Happy Diwali, everyone.

Prashanth Prakash 37:35
Happy Diwali. Have a great year ahead and enjoy the festival season

Prashanth Prakash 37:40
and make it not only a festival of lights but the festival of giving.

Arijit Barman 37:45
A true philanthropist is one who gives and does so quietly let others judge your deen instead of being forced to Thank you Nikhil, Sujeet, Prashant. Once again I deeply appreciate you taking the time out.

Arijit Barman 38:05
This episode was produced by Sumit Pande, Indranil Bhattacherjee was the sound engineer, executive producers Anupriya Bahadur and yours truly. We hope you liked this episode, do share on your social media networks. The morning brief drops every Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays and is available on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Amazon, Google podcasts, as well as jio saavan. Also do tune in to et play our latest platform for all audio content, including the morning brief from the entire team at the morning brief. We wish you and your family and loved ones a very happy and prosperous Diwali and Dhanteras. Goodbye and good luck and have a great weekend.

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