This is an audio transcript of The Morning Brief podcast episode: Gaming Gladiators and India’s Esports Arena

BG Sound 0:01  

This is the morning brief from the economic times 

Arijit Barman 0:11  

prepare for battle. There is a new sport in town. And it has got a whole new cheer

BG Sound 0:28  

Right now I'm 30 years old. And I started playing Dota two as a professionally almost seven years back. Actually, it all begins when when my dad brought a PC when I was like seven, six years old. So my father actually brought PC for a business purpose, but I used to play like a lot of games

Arijit Barman 0:53  

Gear up, as this episode gets you a ringside view of the booming gaming world, and how electronic or simply eSports is evolving in India. Is it commercially viable? Can you really make a sustainable career out of it? Is it just a post pandemic phase? Or are sporting stadiums creating a new home online? It's Friday 19th of August from the economic times. I'm your host Arijit Barman, and you're listening to the gaming gladiators and India's eSports arena on the morning brief.

Arijit Barman 1:39  

In this power packed episode, you will hear how COVID has actually given a booster dose to all our digital natives and gaming junkies from India's first gamer himself. None other than Vishal Gondal, who is jet lagging, but still decided to join us from the United States

Anurag Khurana 1:59  

as the father of eSports, when there was no term called eSports, Vishal was doing that in 2002.

Arijit Barman 2:14  

That's Anurag Khurana who is into organizing tournaments, leagues, content creation and marketing of eSports events. That is taking the gaming revolution to the grassroots. I also speak to IP creators on how blockchain and 5g is and will transform a GG or a good game in gaming parlours, into a marvel of augmented reality. But I have saved the best for the last Moin Ejaz or no chance the captain of India's Dota 2 team, which has placed the country on a gaming pedestal with a podium finish, at the recent Commonwealth Games talks us about the trying and triumphant sides of the gaming scene in India.

Moin Ejaz 3:05  

If you can be the like the top team in India, then you like not getting any sponsor any financial help in it. There is no scope if you're not like you're not top players.

Arijit Barman 3:16  

But first, let's get you the gaming grandmasters shot callers as they would call them in the arena.

Arijit Barman 3:29  

Joining us two very special guests from two very different parts of the world. Vishal Gondal wears many hats, gamer enthusiasts, investor founder and CEO of India games or simply the father of gaming in India. also the founder of ncore games. And of course the man behind the now cult GOQii app. Joining him, Anurag Khurana, founder and CEO, PENTA Esports to veterans to friends. Gentlemen, thank you so very much for taking time out and doing this. Vishal. I know you're jet lagging. So double the appreciation.

Vishal Gondal 4:13  

Thank you. And thanks for inviting us to the show Arijit.

Arijit Barman 4:17  

Vishal let me come straight to you. You've seen and and Anurag just introduced you as the father of gaming and you are you are you are literally the Pioneer you were in this space when people weren't really in it in India. You've seen this space evolve. If you could briefly rewind and help us understand this journey, how you're beginning in gaming and the early days and how you've seen this space evolve.

Vishal Gondal 4:48  

So when India game started the whole concept of that time it was not call esports it was more tournaments we got in one of the world's biggest format called World Cyber Games. which was pitted as the Olympics of computer gaming. It originated from South Korea. And then it was pretty much in all the major countries. And the format was that each country's organized their own qualifiers. And across certain games and the games that time where games like Counter Strike, games like Dota Age of Empires Need for Speed. These are still largely PC based games, because this is the time when there was no real internet and these will lan based gaming. And if you remember, this was also the time when the cyber cafe Revolution had taken off in India. And there were cyber cafes all over, and they were even gaming specific cyber cafes, where you could go and do LAN gaming parties, and so on and so forth. So this was literally the early days of gaming and the early days of eSports. But just like any competitive format, right, the zeal to win the zeal to compete was very, very there in this entire genre of gaming, which is why we saw tremendous success. When we introduced World Cyber Games, people had not heard of what this was. So this was very early days. But interestingly, even at that point of time, we had sponsors like Samsung Pepsi, many of the peripheral brands, PC brands, participate in this. And it was, of course, the beginning. But it was really a very, very great opportunity for the youth in India, to show their talent in the world of computer games. Of course, a lot has changed from then till now, those were early days today. Esports has established itself as an industry. And just like we are seeing formats like or cricket or how sporting itself is now a multibillion dollar business. Esports has ended up being there. Millions of dollars have been invested behind tournaments, teams, streaming technologies. So the whole, the whole ecosystem around eSports has tremendously developed. And clearly COVID has fueled this because when there was a lack of sports in the real arenas, ports actually thrived. Because the promise of your computer screen and your home or your mobile screen, becoming the arena and you being able to compete on a worldwide stage, the community has grown. But more importantly, I think now, it is getting legitimized and recognized as a true form of sporting.

Arijit Barman 7:46  

Correct. Now we'll we'll drill down on each of these points, because you touched upon several of them, but Anurag, I wanted to ask you, according to you, you you're an active stakeholder in this ecosystem. If you have to pick three or four key catalysts for this evolution, this 20 year journey. What would they be?

Anurag Khurana 8:11  

I think, if not in any particular order. But one of the biggest catalysts is the broadcast platform, which in India is YouTube, local stuff like that, because I remember when, in 2003 2004, that's pre YouTube phase. It used to be people who used to walk into and watch the match live, that's all. But right now sitting at home, it's hundreds and 1000s of people wide that matches simultaneously, just for your information. I think the eSports broadcast is already number three in terms of any sports broadcast in our country already. Okay. It's more than cocoa and Kabaddi of the world. Right now. I think it's just behind the cricket, of course, and football. So I think that's where we are already. So that is one of the biggest catalysts. Second, the catalyst was as Michelle said himself, go ahead. Everybody was stuck at home with no real sports happening. People moved on to gaming and eSports I think the third major catalyst, according to me is geo mobile internet to every each and every nook and corner of the country at least. So that's the third and the fourth most important is the involvement of brands brands putting in money to support eSports. So I think these are the four catalysts if you ask me on, which have really helped the eSports.

Arijit Barman 9:40  

Vishal, do you think that the demographics has changed? So clearly, there are two

Vishal Gondal 9:45  

kinds of audiences right, so one is who play for fun? And that group spans across a much wider age group, right? Even 30 year olds and 40 year olds are playing for fun. But eSports is not about just playing for fun. It's about taking Take this as a serious career. And that typically happens when students are in their college, and maybe post college when they see themselves achieving a certain level of competency. And this is exactly what happens even in the world of sports, right? I mean, typically you win Junior tournaments or state level tournaments, and that gives you the motivation to move up the ladder. So the good thing is eSports largely mimics traditional sports. When it comes to demographics, where the people tend to be younger, they first play this as a recreational activity or just for fun, which could be in school or college. But as they start winning tournaments, and which is why what an ROG wants to do, and starting grassroot level tournaments, that will give more people an opportunity to say, Hey, I'm really good at this. And maybe I can make a career out of it. And, you know, this was the problem even in the normal sports, right? Parents never encouraged their kids to take up anything other than cricket, because they said, how will you make money? The good part is, at least in eSports, there is a clear pathway to earn money, and there is a real revenue opportunity for the eSports athlete. So today, the good news is not only are the kids and the young people interested, but even the parents are equally, equally encouraging them to take this as an active career, which was not the case. In 2002, it was considered as a waste of time and that Why are you doing it, so the amount of people who were participating was way lower than today. So the big inflection point came in cricket when we saw cricketers making crores of rupees, and endorsing brands and so on. The good news is that same trend has already started in the world of Esports. Many eSports athletes are now owning crores, in endorsements in fees, and we are representing brands. So today being an Esports athlete is not just about not being able to monetize it, there is a lot of them, not one or two, but a lot of them are able to see make a serious career out of it. And right now, I think sky's the limit when it comes to eSports.

Arijit Barman 12:21  

The world is changing and sky's the limit. I mean, so there is, of course, a lot of money now riding on the athletes themselves. How much can I expect to earn in India? Number one, and number two, as a corollary to that, how does that stack up visa vie a player in us, England, or Malaysia are the other developed markets, so to speak.

Anurag Khurana 12:46  

So I think it's important to understand that each games has a different prize pool. So yes, if you're playing maybe BGI. Or free Fire, your chances to earn the prize pool is much higher in terms of the prize pool quantum, whether if you're playing a game like FIFA, so that's one point, I think second point is because of the reach as athlete, because of that game being so popular, even the brands pay you more, but compared to West or Far East, I think we are not even at 10% of the salaries or income, what these guys are making right now. But we will be there very soon.

Vishal Gondal 13:26  

And I just want to add one point here, right? There is a misconception that people can't own in eSports. It all depends on your level of competency, which competition which he came. It's like saying that, Oh, why are Indian footballers not making the same amount of money like Ronaldo, or Mater, Dona or whoever they used to make in the football teams, because you need to be able to compete at that level. And if you can, because it's all online, you could be sitting in India and playing a US tournament. So nothing is stopping somebody from competing in a US tournament where the prize pool is millions of dollars, but you need to have that level of skill as a sportsman to win it. So this comparison is not really true, because in eSports, the arena is online. So so you could be sitting in Timbuktu and handsy and you could be competing with somebody in Japan in New York. So that's not a problem at all.

Arijit Barman 14:30  

So the beauty is there are no geographical boundaries, and it's truly democratized in that sense. Anurag, I want to also understand that there are athletes and there are influencers. Now, for a layman the influencer is getting the cake, the icing and the cherry in terms of fan following brand endorsements, accolades. Is that a correct assessment?

Anurag Khurana 14:58  

That's the comparison. Influenzers are on their own different set of people in a different set of industries and eSports athletes are a different set of people. Yes. If you always compare, I would compare influencers with game streamers. Yeah, there are the same time, but trust me eSports athletes are playing for the glory for the country and all the other stuff by whereas influences are basically influencing the system. I'm not saying that even the eSports athlete can't be influencers, yes, they are influencers. But the cases are very few. But it's no comparison influencers are altogether different set of people and whereas esports athletes are altogether a different set of people.

Arijit Barman 15:43  

So I was asking, Vishal, that being being the father figure that you are, you don't see this as a trigger for some kind of a friction between the influencers and the athletes.

Vishal Gondal 15:55  

That really, if I mean, just think about it, right, one of the biggest brand ambassadors in India is Virat Kohli. And similarly, it was Dhoni. So is Dhoni a brand ambassador or a sportsman. Right? So I think, similarly, the way this works is that if you are a good athlete or a good e-sportsman, you automatically start having a huge following. And then you can then use these following to monetize, which is what most of the influencers are doing, whether they are in the social media space, or in the movies or in fashion and so on.

Arijit Barman 16:31  

Anurag, I want to ask you, how is the sponsorship or the brand profile changing? You know, we saw a lot of tech companies come as back players. But as Vishal was saying, in his first ever tournament, there was Pepsi, I can still understand Pepsi is a huge brand. But now you know would you say more and more companies across the spectrum from FMCG to to maybe cars automobile to others, they are also waking up and want to exploit this opportunity?

Anurag Khurana 17:05  

Sure Arijit, like I remember, if I'm right, Vishal the main sponsor for WCG was Samsung. At that, yes, Pepsi was supporting it, but major was Samsung. But today, if you see its majority of the brands are not, of course, endemic brands are there. But it's entry of the non endemic brands, which is making a difference brands like Red Bull, Toyota, Hyundai, State Farm State Farm is an insurance company, you name it, because the way I look at it for brands, the youth, which is the prime audience of at least, the viewers, or the CTOs of the company, they might not consume that product today. But they influence the purchase of that product. That's one. And secondly, after four or five years, they are gonna be the prime consumer of those products. So that's how it works.

Vishal Gondal 17:58  

I mean, it's quite clear, right that the future of entertainment is interactive, which is gaming, which is why every passive form of entertainment malls wants to move to an active form of entertainment. In fact, fortnite was the first game, which actually even started the concert inside the game. So imagine that games are now becoming the gateway to people to access and discover new experiences, which is why every social media company Facebook has invested billions in Oculus and our Oculus to Microsoft, Sony, Netflix. So I think as the future moves towards the metaverse and interactive form of entertainment, and immersive gaming, and VR and AR

Arijit Barman 18:43  

Anurag, I want to address the elephant in the room now, which is government and regulation. We saw pub G, one of the most popular games getting banned. Even BGMI recently came under the spotlight, you were actively involved in in that bringing to India, marketing it and making it popular in India, it seems that the policymakers are somewhat uncomfortable with this, am I correct? 

Anurag Khurana 19:13  

I think Arigit, My bigger concern is I'm okay. If certain games or game publishers are not adhering to Indian rules or regulations, you ban them. But I think there needs to be a clear framework that if you don't do ABC, then your game will get banned. Or if you do D it is getting permanent banned. I think that clarity is required rather than one day getting up and saying, Oh, this game is gone. And there's no communication, either from the publisher or from the government why it is gone. So everybody's sitting in making speculation about that. So I think what I would request government to have a very clear framework. These are the reasons why the game could get banned. And this is the reason why this game got banned. I am all I'm all in for Indian security and sovereignty of data, trust me. But having little bit of clarity, communication, I think that would be really helpful.

Vishal Gondal 20:13  

And while Anurag, I completely agree that you need clarity and communication, but I think in the case of BGMI, and pub G, like I had said before, it was the same old wine in new bottle, and they just got caught. I think clearly, I would say that what they did by just renaming the game and in three months launching it, I can't believe they could make a new game in three months. So what happened Arijit is, there was a ban on pub G, because of whatever reasons. And suddenly, we saw that all the employees of Tencent became employees of Krafton overnight, and then suddenly, we saw that in a matter of a few months, there is a new game launch. So I just think that in this particular case, I think there was more than met the eye. And maybe the government has investigated that. But outside of it, I think the government is doing a lot in gaming as there is this big thing going around real money gaming, which is also becoming a big challenge in India, as gambling and betting is openly going on and many states are trying to regulate it or ban it. So I think the problem with gaming right now overall is that what is eSports itself is a challenge. There are many games who are also saying that playing rummy and theen pathi come competitively is also eSports. So I think the government needs to have a larger debate around the separating eSports from non eSports on money related gaming activities, and then create the right framework for growth.

Arijit Barman 21:46  

Understood. Now, Vishal, we are running out of time. So the last word from you. There is a bigger question in terms of societal health implications as well. Parents, most of them and I'm sure you face the question, even Anurag does, that kids are becoming digital slaves. They are not going out to play cricket, football or just run. There is this side effects. That seems to bother a lot of people. Responsible gaming. Yes, we've seen a lot of campaigns, but a lot more needs to be done.

Vishal Gondal 22:27  

So I think I just want to kind of say that even before eSports when kids used to play cricket Gully, cricket all the time parents used to say Ki, yeh log apna time waste kar rahe hain, padai nahi kar rahe hai. So I would say that, as India is a country where always society has not encouraged you pursuing extracurricular activities or anything outside studies, whatever you do outside studies is not considered good. Why studying 24 hours is a good thing. That's one. But I want to kind of bring back to what does it take to be an Esports person, you have to respond in a matter of microseconds. That is the level of reflexes you need to have as an Esports person. As an Esports person, you are playing a game of 100 chess tournaments in one time, because you are not only trying to analyze your moves, you are trying to analyze moves of 100 other opponents in those games. So people underestimate that what does it require to be an eSports person. There are elements in every sport who will end up being the bad characters and I don't think so this small minority should kind of use to tarnish the image of the overall industry or sport.

Arijit Barman 23:46  

Clearly, the game has just begun. But what does a champion gamer like Moin has to say about it all? Is life indeed, so promising? Or is finding a high roller to bankroll you and your team Still a challenge? What are the sponsorship sweepstakes? And how did it all begin for him?

Moin Ejaz 24:15  

I'm right now I'm 30 years old, and I started playing Dota two as a professionally, almost seven years back. Actually, it all begins when when my dad brought a PC when I was like seven, six years old. So my father actually brought PC for a business purpose, but I used to play like a lot of games. And then I started like playing CSGO with my friends. There was like lot of time when my friends like used to leave and keep talking about Dota two how it is like we are going to play that game as like very interested in it. And I liked like how the game was like how, like you need to put your brain in it and you need to make like strategy and your skills. So yeah, like that's pretty much I got hooked into the game. And then there is my friend in local again Kolkata, so he asked me to play a tournament for him like to play in his team. I was like, pretty nervous. And I was very, very shy at that time. Yeah, like we were. And we had like a match against like best team from Kolkata at that time. And we somehow we beat him. So everyone, like started knowing me, this guy is very good. And so everyone like started cheering for me. 

Arijit Barman 25:18  

When was this 

Moin Ejaz 25:19  

I think it was 2013 14 So I used to I used to just play like casually that time so it was not like professionally, it was around 2016 to 17 When I got like be when when our team was like doing very well and then we got sponsors deal and stuff. So like they were ready to sponsor us. So we joined them it was it was beyond infinity that time like and then now it's renamed to entity eSports which is very big organization right now.

Arijit Barman 25:48  

Okay, but tell me when you were starting out in Kolkata were they this I want to understand this whole culture that your friends would play where would play on their respective PCs? Or you guys would go to Video parlors and play where would you hang basically.

Moin Ejaz 26:05  

So it's like a it's like a group like there was league system in India before for Dota two is so anyone like anyone from India they played together with each other. So that's how like we get to know like all the players from India so actually we made team and we like talked with like a bit of players on Discord or Skype like that time it was Skype. So everyone like would be there hanging out chilling out and talking with each other. So that's like, pretty much we know each other.

Arijit Barman 26:38  

But tell me what was the scene like at home? I mean, I'm sure your parents at that point in time and when you started you were in school, I'm guessing so they must be saying Ki Moin yaar, padhai karo, doctor bano, engineer Bono, yeh kya hai, yeh kya yeh tho MATLAB, yeh cricket football bhi nahi hai yeh tho esport hai, yeh pata nahi kya hai, isse kya hoga, future tho kuch hai hi nahi . I mean, what what kind of questions did you face at home? 

Moin Ejaz 27:10  

Like it started like that. But then when I started like winning local events, and some, like I went to other events, and we did well, so they were like, if you see any scope in it, then you can to try to like, go for it like so I had like a choice before to either study or to like completely commit on the games. Like the team. So basically, we had to like go to the Mumbai boot camp that time, and I was studying in college, so yeah, they they like asked me if you want to like go and play there then you should like commit 100% in it. So yeah, they were pretty supportive. 

Arijit Barman 27:52  

No I'm sure there were but would you say that only when you started winning and they actually saw that there is some kind of financial viability because all parents worry ki bachchon ka kya hoga, future kya hoga.

Moin Ejaz 28:06  

Yeah, like that time it was not a thing but then suddenly like some big tournament some big sponsors started showing up so they saw like they saw some potential even I saw so I tried to like convince them that there is a scope in esport as well. So yeah, they were very happy when I got like my first salaries and boot camp and place to stay and play with the team.

Arijit Barman 28:30  

But what kind of initial investments did you have to make because there is there is a cool point there is I mean, there is an investment that you will have to make in to excel in this in this sport

Moin Ejaz 28:43  

before like it was all up to you like you have to pay for everything for mouse keyboard stuff and net and everything like so but then it slowly like started like people started getting facilities like we got facilities like proper gaming house where you got like PCs, keyboards, mouse and stuff and then you get like your own chef. So yeah, it was very good like that time

Arijit Barman 29:07  

understood. So if I can ask you now that you're a professional and we're talking about parents and viability in terms of making it as a profession, how much can a athlete on a professional athlete on realistically in India and how long is his his or her shelf

Moin Ejaz 29:27  

so there are like multiple ways you can earn money from being a Dota two player I guess, like a pro if you if you're very good in it like you can earn lot of money from it, especially if you're playing for outside like international teams. If they if you get like picked up by a very good like very professional organization then as far as I know like they pay you around 6 to 7000 USD dollar, you get like all the facilities all the traveling and everything is like covered in it and then you can even stream for yourself then you can like have separate income as well from that legally tend to stream your games and like you entertain people, something like that. So like I when I used to play in 2019, in, in our organization called signify I used to get like paid like 45 to 50,000. So, yeah, like, if you're good in it, you can get like a lot of sponsor, plus you whatever, you win from winnings, you get that also. So yeah, like there are a lot of ways you can earn

Arijit Barman 30:24  

you, you obviously, were looking to win gold. It didn't happen. What went wrong against England? And Malaysia? Do you think they were better prepared? These these these teams have been playing for far longer than Indians in comparison, or something was fundamentally wrong in the strategy? Or was it just a bad hair day for you.

Moin Ejaz 30:52  

So actually, we had like, very less time to prepare for the event. And we were having like, different problems with like Visa and stuff, and some of our players having like power cut issues. So like a lot of different stuff. Net not is like, net problem. And stuff. And other than that, like a Malaysian team was like very strong one, I think, I think they were the like, the strongest in the tournament, because they they were playing for a year, like together. But we could have won the match. We just we made like some mistake in the games. So yeah, and because like my team, like my our team, we had like three new players also, like who have not played any other events before that. So for them, it was like the first time playing in a big stage. And in front of a lot of people like you get nervous. So that's so yeah, like it's a good experience for them. Also, they will learn from it. And like our main target is action games, but there will be like a lot of different events also happening in India.

Arijit Barman 31:53  

Now you raised a very important point in terms of players facing power cut internet problems. Now, things like this things like infrastructure, things like technology, aren't these big challenges or big handicaps that players like you face, and what possibly can be done.

Moin Ejaz 32:14  

I Don't think like, you can do much about the power cut issues, if one of the players have then like I like, I don't know, like what else you can do. The only thing like I feel like if you if, if you like have a sponsor, if I have a gaming house, I think that's pretty much like solve the problem. Because you go play in the same place, like five people playing in the same place. And even if like, if there's a power cut issue, then you can like, have a backup generator, or maybe you can go to the cafe play together there. So I guess there's like only option I think, for players, if we have a good sponsor, like, if ever sponsored who can like give us like all the facilities we need, I think we can like do pretty well in like future events as well.

Arijit Barman 33:00  

I see a lot of these influencers in eSports. Someone like a dynamo, and others, they they get a lot of sponsorship from companies as diverse as Gillette to Asus computers to Hewlett Packard, HP or Lenovo, things like that. So even car companies are now coming up. Arent isn't the situation improving? Is aren't more and more moneyed. Or deep pocket investors coming on board and backing teams. And isn't it getting more corporatized more organized?

Moin Ejaz 33:38  

Yeah, like for Dota it's actually very complicated game. So people like don't like there is no not much people who understand the game. And it's like, it's very hard to know what's going on in the game. So I think that's why like Dota fan following is very less in India. So influencers have like a lot of like fan following and views like so that's why like I think they get like most of the brand deals and while Dota players they don't get like all these options,

Arijit Barman 34:05  

India generally forgets our athletes, as fast as they put them on a pedestal. Once you win an accolade. You are a hero but six months down the line, nobody remembers you and there is no institutional support mechanism for athletes of any kind, whether track and field or any team sport or individual sport. What would your message be to your community, to investors and to corporate sponsors at large.

Moin Ejaz 34:37  

I feel like government should like get into eSports they should start recognizing what eSports is in India like it's growing very like like it's growing very fast pace right now in India. And for Dota I think. I think if it depends I think it's because mainly fault of the players I guess like they They don't compete in the tournaments and like, like they, but I feel like it Dota players think that like, they're going to lose anyway, so they just don't play. Like, I think they should, like start competing in events, even, like at least give it a try, right like you will start learning you will start getting better. So, like that's what I feel like when when some like tournaments happen they were like only 10 teams 20 teams who show up for the for the tournament, because they feel like they cant like beat good teams. 

Arijit Barman 35:33  

Is it because of lack of confidence, exposure? Or is it because it needs money and wherewithal and as you said, Visa travel paraphernalia, and simply it becomes unaffordable.

Moin Ejaz 35:46  

Yeah, there is also thing like, if they know like, if you can be the like the top team in India, then you like not getting any sponsor any financial help in it. So yeah, like, they know like there is no scope. If you're not like you're not top players.

Arijit Barman 36:03  

So it is it is a combination of factors there.

Moin Ejaz 36:06  

Yeah, it combination.

Arijit Barman 36:07  

Yeah. Right through the episode, you've heard the Father of gaming in India, Vishal Gondal, himself talk about the exponential growth of eSports in the country. You also heard an organizer and a champion athlete like Moin, also talk about the growing opportunities and the fast changing dynamics. But being a numbers junkie, I wanted some hard stats to really get a grip on things. So, I decided to lean on a gentleman who has also seen it all for over a decade.

Bharat Patel 36:44  

Like like any other sports that we talk about, the electronic sports is also on the rise in India. And the industry is actually expected to grow to a massive 46% growth rate. And do you know, currently which is close to around 2.5 billion rupee market, which is 2021 figures, and which is expected to grow to 11 billion by 22 to 25, which is as per the ENY report.

Arijit Barman 37:13  

That's Bharat Patel, co founder and director of of Yudiz Solutions. And Ahmedabad headquartered enterprise software company with outposts around the world in Canada, UK, Malta, that has been into web, mobile app development gaming plugins and blockchain solutions since 2011.

Bharat Patel 37:36  

And especially, you know, when we've got the bronze medal at the Commonwealth, although it's bronze, but it's a huge impact, you know, it's like a catalyst in the whole phenomena that's going to happen, because this gives a big leverage to all those gamers who are there in the country. And you know, the, the whole economics around the, the esports is based on the prize pool, which is being there, you know, and it is expected that the prize pool, which will be close to 1 billion rupees by 2025. So, whenever there is a prize, which is tagged to any sports, the sports become bigger.

Arijit Barman 38:19  

But if the gaming industry is becoming bigger, then companies like Yudiz, that creates IPs or plugins, or are into product development themselves should also be raking in the moolah, right? How does the economics work for them?

Bharat Patel 38:37  

Whoever is the developer of the game concept, he has his own intellectual property, but the IP is based on whatever characters that they choose whatever game or levels that they choose, whatever game strategies that they decide, and the winning ratios that they decide. So all this is based on whatever that the game developed, the game owner will have its own IP on it. So

Arijit Barman 39:01  

so let me get this correct. So Yudiz, if it develops a game, you own the IP for perpetuity, it's not that the IP moves, if you sell the game to a Facebook, to a Microsoft to a Sony, Nintendo or whoever.

Bharat Patel 39:16  

Yes, you're right. And you know this in today's world, everything is on a SaaS based model. So it's everything residing on a cloud, and it's been given as a pay as you go. So it gets used by any of the platforms, and the still the IP still remains with us with the owners.

Arijit Barman 39:34  

But if you notice, most of the IPs are global, for a country with a rich canon of mythological characters, epics, and our own indigenous games like Coco, kabaddi or even looka chuppi what stops us from becoming a content powerhouse ourselves. Much like in animation, why do we Still get swayed by pub G Dota, two, Assassin's Creed, Counter Strike or League of Legends or even FIFA that are all conceived, coded and developed by companies overseas.

Bharat Patel 40:14  

Currently, India has almost 150,000 players and there are 60,000 teams which are currently there on eSports. And if we look at the growth, which is going to be close to around 78% growth rate by 2025, which will reach to 1.5 million players with 250,000 teams. Now, these are all most of them are based out of the games which they are using, which are internationally developed games be it Korean be it Japan be it US or China whatever, when you talk about the Indian sports, you know, there are tremendous amount of scope of the Indian characters like even if you look about not the eSports, but the regular games, it is fast catching up with the Indian characters, you know, be it like chota bheem or you know, small kids you know, they have their games. Similarly, a Kabaddi as you rightly touched that point, kabaddi is a huge sports. And when we talk about eSports we all know that, you know eSports is all about a kind of, you know, a team which will play against another team and cupboard is one of the classic examples that we have as far as Indian games are concerned. And that's slowly going to catch up. And once a particular sports become popular, the eSports takes over. So that's that's going to be huge, you know, and then there are lot many such kind of characters in Indian mythology as you rightly said, which will then eventually come up as a part of the eSports.

Arijit Barman 41:42  

But if you notice, most of the IPs are global. And as blockchains become mainstream data protection and especially payment security via digital distributed, Ledger's become that much simpler and secure. 

Bharat Patel 42:00  

Since you know we talk about the financial models, the other big technology that you know, which are being used here is the blockchain which is a very secured method by which the payments which is seamlessly connected between one end to the other and with the distributed Ledger's, it remains extremely secure as to how the payment flow is also happening. And with the new web 3.0 And HTML frameworks like phaser and pixie Js and unity these are the platforms which are extremely powerful for any game development, which Yudiz is extremely expert on.

Arijit Barman 42:43  

My take. I only wish the support ecosystem for Indian Gaming creators improve. It is changing, but still largely an import from the world into India. Hopefully a lot will change with time. And the world of 5g or as I call it. Anything is possible universe where augmented virtual or even mixed realities will coexist with Metaverse and digital avatars. Imagine a digital you and a bot playing FIFA for five hours. Now why is 5g a game changer because when you talk of taking an audio clip or a video clip, or share with multiple people on a single platform, it's all about the video and audio compression and that needs massive bandwidth. We're talking multiple people from multiple IPS coming on board from multiple locations working seamlessly on a single cloud based platform. 5g will make high resolution streaming possible in supersonic speed. revolutionising the whole user experience. It's no longer about connecting through a modem or a local area network or even playing in one large auditorium. Next time, invite your cousin from Canada for a session of Starcraft two. You can play from your mobile device while he can use his tab or even TV Welcome to this new community dude. But but but but but for heaven's sake, do not become a couch potato. Too much of anything is not cool. If you are a casual gamer or a streamer, or just a fan, go out, play a real sport too, read a book. Get Real for Christ's sake. You have been listening to the gaming gladiators and India's eSport arena On the morning brief with me Arijit Berman. 

This episode was produced by Sumit Pande from the economic times. And Soundarya Jayachandran from Aawaz. Sound Editor Rajas Naik from The Economic Times and Swati Joshi from Aawaz. Executive producers Anupriya Bahadur and yours truly from the economic times. Do share the episode if you like it. Tune in to et play our latest platform for all things audio, including your favorite podcast The Morning Brief. Our episodes drop every Tuesday, Thursdays and Friday. Hope you enjoyed listening to the episode. Have a great weekend. Goodbye. Good luck, and happy gaming. All external sound clips used in this episode belong to their respective owners. Credits are mentioned in the description

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